Is it legal...

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by bagpiper, Sep 19, 2016.


  1. bagpiper

    bagpiper Heretic

    ... to make, for yourself, a fully automatic .22...

    I know it is illegal to 'gunsmith' for somebody else, for money...
    But, I would like to make a fully automatic .22 for a lot of reasons.
    I think I'm gonna simply try to make a new sear for the Apache 77, but that may not be possible.
    (rimfire may be an issue?)
    I'm making some new mags since you can't seem to buy 'em anymore... and I'd like some with 30 round capacity.
    (and the old 10 round plastic pieces of crap are just that.)

    (and no, I would rather ask you guys, than plow through .gov bs.)
     
  2. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    No its NOT legal to modify or own without paperwork

    Edit: do it and you could become Leroys bride and passed around ohno
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  3. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    You can legally make your own firearms provided you do not sell or give them away. You may not, however, make a fully automatic firearm or modify an existing firearm to be fully automatic.

    The ONLY fully automatic firearms you may own were manufactured or modified as such prior to a certain date in 1986.
     
    Taku, Ura-Ki, Ganado and 4 others like this.
  4. Bishop

    Bishop Monkey+

    Get a class 3 and buy one that you don't have to worry about a bump fire and shoot your neighbor.
     
    Ura-Ki and Legion489 like this.
  5. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Or, You could look into a Fostech trigger?
    Not for .22's ...yet.
     
    VisuTrac likes this.
  6. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    I had a fully auto Beretta .22 LR hand gun, it had a frozen firing pin... I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn after the first round went off. perhaps it's easier to aim with a rifle.

    Rancher
     
  7. duane

    duane Monkey++

    If you wish to build a firearm from scratch that will fire more than 1 time, it is difficult to not build a semi automatic. Milling and lathe work needed to create a Mauser type locking action is very complex and then adding an operating rod etc to cycle it is an even greater challenge. If you use a blow back action, grease gun, sten, etc and a fixed firing pin, the hard part will be making a sear that will keep it from being automatic. As azrancher said, problem is hitting anything and the two wheeler you need to carry ammo. Having fired full auto in military, I can not find any logical reason for most of us to own one. Now I loved firing the ma duece, but the cost of ammo, the weight of the weapon, the cost of the weapon, and the need to vaporize deer at 500 yards make it a little impracticable.
     
  8. bagpiper

    bagpiper Heretic

    Ok, that's seriously ... confused.
    'If' I get a class 3, and pay uncle a pile of money, then I can OWN an old 'machine gun'. But then, uncle would know our business...
    Or, I can buy something online/offline to illegally modify a weapon I probably don't own... and will have to buy something else... AND, again, uncle will be in our business...
    Or, I can apply the corollary to the law of the 3 S's. Silence is golden.

    PS: This is not an 'intent to manufacture', this is for educational purposes only... :)
     
  9. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    ^^^^^ This. Even for "educational" purposes, it is not condoned and is against the law. I would ask myself is it worth losing everything in court fees then spending many years as a guest of .gov.

    Asking on a public survival site isn't that OPSEC if you do not want uncle to know.
     
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  10. rjburk

    rjburk Monkey

    get a ruger 10/22.....buy one of the aftermarket stocks that uses ar15 style stock and add bumpfire stock....and get some 50 round drum magazines....should be fun....
     
  11. bagpiper

    bagpiper Heretic

    agreed motomom...
    just clarifying a question asked by a friend. I assured him it was illegal, he was adamant you could make anything 'for yourself' as long as it wasn't for sale...
    But, the .22 idea is pretty good... for several reasons...
    Myself... I would like to make a cannon...

    :)
    IF we now get arrested for asking questions about what is lawful, and what is not... where does freedom live? In the old Soviet Union?

    A man who waits for permission to ask/act, is a slave, not a freeman.

    Appreciate that, but we have an old Apache to work with... otherwise, I told him, a gatling gun would be easier... we are DIY, blacksmiths, not buyers of somebody else's hardware...
    I even make my own black powder... its about retaining the skills, not acquiring hardware...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2016
    chimo likes this.
  12. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd Site Supporter+

    Amen
     
  13. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Asking is fine. Balking at the answers isn't so fine.

    Yep. Permission is not needed. It's the getting caught outside in the rain that gets you wet. (I'm sure you see the analogy --)
     
    Motomom34 likes this.
  14. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey Site Supporter

    Could be an interesting test for the new scotus members that will be appointed soon. See if they can return us to decisions based on the REAL intent of the second amendment.. That the members of the militia will be armed with weapons that are used in the military.. NOT only those used for hunting and self defence...
     
    tacmotusn, Ura-Ki, Dunerunner and 2 others like this.
  15. rjburk

    rjburk Monkey

    unless you buy some hardware you won't be able to build one, legal or not....
     
  16. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd Site Supporter+

    yes masa, sho nuff don't wanna get caught by da walkin boss...best just stay home under da porch!

    Drink o' water boss?
    Not today, boy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
    BlueDuck and Ura-Ki like this.
  17. bagpiper

    bagpiper Heretic

    @Dont hit the nail on the head...
    The intention of the 2nd amendment is to stand in defense of liberty against enemies "foreign and domestic"...
    Hopefully, the biggest domestic enemy we have, will soon exit stage left...
    @ghrit,
    No balking, I just don't care anymore. If asking questions is now something that causes fear and loathing within ourselves, then political correctness has achieved its primary objective, to mind fuck us. If you can't ask questions then what's the point of having SM? Just post the allowed talking points of the day and delete comments outside that box. We are already too far down the path of good intentions to encourage them further, time to draw a line, stand behind it, and dare them to step over it. This is part of the Trump 'phenomenon'. For now, the entire country is holding its breath, waiting for Nov 9th... I realize you guys have a site to run, and you do a hell of a good job, if it was mine I would not log user IP's, and tell the Feds 'sorry we don't have disk space for that'... but if your users become afraid to post outside the box, that has destroyed many a community... that is the purpose behind the left's assault on our rights, our minds, our culture, our religion, our economy, our money, I think the heat has risen to the boiling point, and the boiler won't take much more pressure before something gives...
    If asking questions gets them interested in me, let them come. When you get past 60, perspective awakens you, Geronimo was right, Today, is, a good day to die. Regardless of who wins the election, I think there will be blood. We are no longer the 'loyal opposition', they are, and have been, throwing around the 'enemy' word. We are at 1860, again, only this time, the animals want to be in charge of the zoo... in this environment, either you step up to the plate, or you die with too many regrets.

    I know a fellow blacksmith who built a cannon, a civil war type... as far as I know, 'antique' firearms (ie muzzle loaders) are exempt from most BS. The Feds recently telegraphed their intentions by regulating nitrocellulose as an illegal explosive... the ATF regulation was delayed(by the MIC?). Do you think a Hillary administration would delay it further, or love it?(Since it is the primary precursor to smokeless gunpowder.) Do you think she wouldn't move to 'regulate' ammo? Or, would simply be simpler to regulate the chemicals that make ammo? If that happens, all your fancy guns become baseball bats... and you will be looking for someone like me... In the words of John Lennon; Imagine... a flintlock that shoots sabot rounds...

    As far as the fully auto .22, that's my friends project, he has now downloaded the pdf for something that looks like an old wwii grease gun... I told him he could scrounge through my 'hardware store', but, "I don't want to know what's it for and you didn't tell me...(wink)"

    @rjburk,
    funny man... you should see my personal hardware store...
    If I don't have it, I can make it. All I need is wood and water.
     
    Mountainman likes this.
  18. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    This is not complicated.

    There are various ways to create full auto weapons, some are quite easy (an AR-15). However, it became flat out illegal for non-licensed (i.e. not a class III dealer or manufacturer) individual to manufacture a full auto weapon after May 19, 1986. So effective that date, the total number of full auto weapons in the hands of individuals was fixed, never to be increased ever again for any reason. That is why the prices have sky-rocketed. A drop-in auto sear for an AR-15 that sold for $50 in 1985 (plus $200 tax stamp) now can sell for over $25,000! A crappy Cobray M-11 submachine gun that sold for $190 in March 1986 now can fetch $8000 or more. Classic supply and demand economics. All you have to do is live in a state that does not prohibit ownership of a full auto, then get finger printed, fill out a form the chief law enforcement officer in your jurisdiction signs (state reason as "investment and recreation"), send all that to ATF with certified check or money order for $200 and wait 2-9 months for approval to then give the seller thousands of dollars to take possession. Gets trickier if trying to purchase across state lines as weapon must be transferred first to a class III dealer who moves it across state lines to another III dealer who then transfers it to you.

    Sorry but the laws are actually very clear and presently no exceptions exist for most people. (you can jump thru lots of hoops to license as a manufacturer but then can only sell to .gov or class III dealers who sell to .gov and if you can't convince them you are a serious manufacturer, probably won't get the class III manufacturer license.)

    AT
     
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  19. rjburk

    rjburk Monkey

    not trying to be funny....IF you or your friend want to make a automatic weapon you will need more than blacksmith tools.....
     
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

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