is it safe to speak your mind?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by beast, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    Air Force discharging sergeant who doubts Obama

    OMAHA, Neb. (AP) — The Air Force said Wednesday it is discharging a hero of the so-called birther movement who refused to report to duty in Germany for a few days earlier this month because he doubts President Barack Obama's citizenship.Staff Sgt. Daryn Moran expects to be discharged within the next week. Although the 41-year-old Nebraska man refused to report to duty and had called for Obama's arrest in statements on websites, several other things contributed to his discharge, including his opposition to Obama's decision to allow gays to serve openly in the military.

    Moran, who has served nine years in the Air Force, drew the attention of the birther movement when he shared his views on Obama's citizenship on websites of groups that believe Obama was not born in the U.S. and therefore is not eligible to serve as president or commander in chief.

    Obama released a copy of his detailed birth certificate from Hawaii in April in an attempt to quell the questions about whether he was born outside the U.S. But many birthers contend Obama's birth certificate must be a fake.

    Moran was an ophthalmology technician with the 86th Airlift Wing at Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany, where he had been stationed since October 2010. He was put on leave sometime earlier this year after some of his co-workers at the eye clinic were bothered by comments he made about the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell" and about Muslim terrorists and how he thought Obama was connected to Muslims. One of the doctors at the clinic was Muslim.

    It's not clear whether Moran would have been prosecuted for refusing to report for duty because it appears his discharge was approved by his commander about a week beforehand.

    Air Force spokesman Michael Kucharek said Wednesday that his commander approved the discharge on Aug. 4. Moran had refused to report for duty starting last Thursday.

    Moran said he is receiving an honorable discharge, but the Air Force would only confirm that he is being discharged.

    Moran said he didn't consider his orders valid because he doesn't consider Obama's presidency valid. Even as he was waiting for the Air Force to decide what to do with him, Moran was calling for Obama's arrest.

    "I doubt America's future if we choose to abandon the Constitution at the moment of this battle with B. Obama's desire for absolute authority and unwillingness to cooperate," Moran said Wednesday in an email from Germany to The Associated Press.

    Earlier this year, an Army doctor who disobeyed deployment orders because he doubted Obama's birth records served five months of a six-month prison sentence for refusing to go to Afghanistan. Terry Lakin, of Greeley, Colo., pleaded guilty in December to disobeying orders and was convicted of missing a flight that would have gotten him to his eventual deployment Lakin was tried at Fort Meade.
    Like Lakin, Moran has appeared in YouTube videos with leaders of the birther movement.

    Moran said he started doing research online about Obama after he was put on leave and after two airmen were killed in March in a shooting in Frankfurt, Germany.
    Moran's father, Howard Moran, said he's proud of his son for taking a stand, and the information his son found online also convinced him that Obama isn't qualified to be president.

    "Even if you don't agree with him, you have to give him some credit. I believe he's doing what he thinks is right," said Howard Moran, who also served in the Air Force.
    Daryn Moran joined the Air Force after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. He previously served in the Marines from 1991-1995.

    Moran said Wednesday that he hoped to be back in his hometown of Omaha within the next week with his wife and two children.

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    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2014
  2. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Not if you are under the UCMJ.... You can hold different Opinions, but you keep them close.....
    Sapper John and LogOut like this.
  3. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but for me, politics have no place in the military. While I was an active duty Marine, for twenty-two years, I did not vote in national level elections. I had my own opinions of course but, within the military and in public, I kept my opinions to myself.

    It was my thought that whomever the American people selected as the Commander in Chief was my boss, and that was it. I gave up a lot of civil liberties when I joined the military, and the right to criticize my boss was one of them. I may thoroughly despise the person sitting in the President's chair (need I mention Clinton's name?), but I respect the office of the President.

    When I retired, I saw my situation entirely different than when I was active duty, and I have proudly voted in every national-level election since that time, and plan to continue. While you are wearing the uniform though, IMHO, you need to keep your mouth shut and do the job you are paid to do. If you have problems doing that job, you need to press for separation from the service. Until you get that separation, you need to keep your opinions to yourself, and do the job you have been entrusted with.
  4. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    The Air Force said Wednesday it is discharging a hero of the so-called birther movement who refused to report to duty in Germany

    Think MAYBE his discharge has more to do with that than his opinion of Obama ??
  5. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    when i was in the marines it was to defend the right of free speech and ill be damned if id let my rights go just cuz i was in the service
    yes i didnt say a lot of what was on my mind, sometimes you just cant, but i wasnt silent
    and now that ive been out for years and they tell me im not even legally a vet...F**K them
    CaboWabo5150 likes this.
  6. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Beware generals and soldiers who enter political cruades

    It is in a nation's interest and in the interest of the health of the armed forces' as a social institution, that the military act as an apolitical entity.

    When the generals and the soldiery (together with sailors, marines and airforce personnel) are politicised....then the nation need be worried that the armed forces, instead of being the nation's protector....may become the nation's oppressor.
    BTPost and tulianr like this.
  7. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    I agree with Tulianr that politics has no place in the military but the sad thing is that it is. I also believe that everyone has the right of free speech and the right to to form his or her own opinion. Having said that and not wanting to offend anyone, I think that a person should try and keep his opinion to himself at certain times and in certain places. The military is one of them, reason being no matter who the commader and cheif is you are a US soldier and we are at war like it or not. When a soldier makes comments or does somthing that shows disagreement or lack of trust in the ranks it weekens military. Look back through time how many great General's used the tactics of deviding the troops from within, then taking them over as the pressures and anger seperates the troops. Also it breaks the spirit of young boot's and puts doubt in their heads when all they should be thinking about is Im a solier, I have a mission to complete and a family to get back home to at all cost. I am a soldier that fights for freedom and for the best Country in the world the United States Of America. In this situation I think the flyboy shouldn't get an honorable discharge, because by doing what he done it didnt hurt Obama. The only thing he did was let his unit down because they had to take up the slack and proved that he couldn't be depended on by all of his fellow troops in a tme of need. Did not meen to offend anyone just from my point of veiw.
  8. LogOut

    LogOut Monkey+

    Having served under Carter I can tell you firsthand it pays to keep your yap shut about the Commander in Chief no matter how big of a buffon he is.

    Also, NOT reporting for duty is a dang good way to get yourself discharged (and possibly jailed).
  9. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    He deserves no less !
  10. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    When you are in the military you keep your political views private. That is one of the things you have to do to wear the uniform.
    Alpha Dog likes this.
  11. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    In both my USAF days and my NAVY days, we were always told we could NOT take part in any protests (political or otherwise) or voice our opinions in public. We were never told we couldn't discuss matters among ourselves.
    I didn't become 'political' til Uncle Ronnie was our CIC. Though I did begin to have serious apprehensions during the Carter Years........
    I was out by the time we were saddled with Slick Willie.
  12. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    After 9 year I'd bet Staff Sgt. Daryn Moran knew that also.
  13. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    If Cpl Klinger only knew that being a birther

    and making overtly critical remarks about Harry Truman's fitness as commander in chief ( I mean to say....Harry DID sack one of America's "greatest" military icons did he not) Cpl Klinger would have gotten his discharge much quicker than the show's script writers would have found convenient AND without becoming 4077's drag queen and comedy relief.

    Now with don't ask don't tell no more than a quaint memory, these days, Cpl Klinger would merely have been given a female's entitlement to military uniforms, and be told to get back to duty....and for god's sake....keep your stocking seams straight!!!!
  14. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Truman fired MacArthur for a variety of reasons; the root cause was MacArthur wanted to extend (escalate) the war by bombing Chinese territory etc and Truman wanted it to be contained as the Korean War not WWIII.
  15. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    More to the point, MacA made the mistake of disagreeing publicly with his commanding officer's orders.
  16. CaboWabo5150

    CaboWabo5150 Hell's coming with me

    You definitely would want to be cautious of your present company when making any statements that involve anybody up the chain of command.. I was active duty in the Marine Corps during the Bush Sr. / Clinton election, and there were MANY conversations discussing the disgust of Clinton becoming the Commander In Chief.. But yes.. If you run around spouting off at the mouth about this and that, you will find yourself in the brig or with a bad conduct discharge..
    tulianr likes this.
  17. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    It isn't a General's call to start a world war or negotiate an alliance; his job is to fight it after the idiot politicians or tyrants start it.

    As we did not invade the North the US did the same thing in Vietnam also.
    Sapper John, BTPost and tulianr like this.
  18. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I was a student in a college philosophy class many years ago, and the assignment was for us to break off into groups of four, and design a set of rules to control a military-like organization, forgetting everything that we knew about the UCMJ. The class was on a military base overseas, so practically all the students were active duty, spouses, or other dependents.

    What each group came up with was something very similar to the UCMJ, whether that was our intent or not, complete with restrictions on some basic civil liberties; restrictions that many of us had chaffed under.

    I don't know how many times over the years, in response to our grumbling that something wasn't fair, I heard from superiors, "We DEFEND a democracy, but the military IS NOT a democracy." And they were right. When I began to reach a supervisory level, I understood much better why voicing your personal opinions about the chain of command was a bad idea.

    Whenever three Marines are in one place, one of them is in charge, even if they are all the same rank. Your "buddies" today may be your subordinates the next day; and getting someone to obey your commands, when you have just been bad-mouthing the chain of command the previous day, can be an interesting exercise.

    It's a basic concept of good leadership that you present each and every command to your subordinates as if that command originated with you, even if you think that your superior, who actually did originate the command is full of s**t. That applies to corporals and generals alike.

    A military member may not like members of the government, but the civilian chain of command has to be treated with the same respect as the military chain of command. To do otherwise undermines a basic concept of our nation - that the military is answerable to the civilian government, not the other way around. I don't think anyone would want to see our nation controlled by the military. So, I survived two terms of Clinton, and my wife got to hear exactly what I thought of him; but when I donned my uniform each day, I shut my mouth.
  19. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Rog on salute the uniform. [winkthumb] [winkthumb]
  20. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    Just look at the way things are as a civilan if you say certain things or hold certain beliefs and make them known about the goverment they will classify you as a domestic terrorist and arrest you or put you on a watch list to see everything you are doing. Thats like I don't agree with alot of things the goverment tries to make me do as a Deputy and I try to find a loop hole or way around it but if I was to voice my opinion about it and just refuse to do it. They would bring State and Federal charges up on me for failing to do my sworn duties. So I watch who I talk to about it and use other meens to handle it. The big problem with what this guy done for me is he left his unit out to hang and you guy's know what it's like to be a boot. If they had any they are scared and want to be part if the team then go and save the world. You take someone who is arguing his belifes and failing to report for his duty it puts a doubt in their heads which in the long run can get the boot's hurt. They should be thinking about the task at hand not second guessing the orders. It takes their mind out of the game. Now by no form am I saying that this soldier shouldn't have his own opinion's and be able to think his own way. I am saying there is times he should keep them to his self. He chose to be a soldier, he should have known what that called for and what would be exspected of him. So follow the orders that are given to him, keep his mouth shut and then when his time is up, leave. At that point if he should want he can cry about what ever he want's.
    STANGF150 likes this.
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