Is the US Constitution a Sucide Pact After All?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pauly Walnuts, Jun 12, 2008.


  1. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...n_a_suici.html




    June 12, 2008
    Is the US Constitution a suicide pact after all?
    James Lewis
    The US Supreme Court has just decided to allow terror suspects captured in foreign combat to challenge their detention in Federal civilian courts. This decision contradicts US law for the last 232 years, through the Civil War and the two World Wars. According to AP:


    "...the court ruled 5-4 that the government is violating the rights of prisoners being held indefinitely and without charges at the U.S. naval base in Cuba. The court's liberal justices were in the majority. ... The lawyer for Salim Ahmed Hamdan, Osama bin Laden's one-time driver, said he will seek dismissal of the charges against Hamdan based on Thursday's ruling. A military judge had already delayed the trial's start to await the high court ruling."

    This ruling comes seven years after the 9/11 attacks, including a direct attack on the Pentagon and an aborted suicide attack believed to be aimed at the Capitol or the White House itself.

    The White House said it is studying the ruling. But even if this is a narrowly defined decision, there is no question that the ACLU will try to broaden it to make it apply to all captured combatants on any circumstances.


    The US Supreme Court has opened a Pandora's Box. It is hard to see any legal barrier against giving enemy combatants Miranda rights, applying civilian rules of evidence to armed combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the end of preemptive action against terrorists. Preemption is only possible for military action --- until now. It is not possible in domestic crimes, because criminals must be considered innocent until proven guilty.


    Combatants now seem to be entitled to speedy trial, the presumption of innocence, and the right to be released immediately -- where, in the United States? -- if they are detained too long. If we capture a terror chief tomorrow in Iraq or Afghanistan, how many weeks can we keep him? How many of our soldiers will die because professional mass killers are released willy-nilly to kill again?


    We have all suddenly become far more vulnerable to terrorist attack than ever before.


    It is often said that "the US Constitution is not a suicide pact." Five Supreme Court Justices now seem so seduced by their untrammeled power and the illusion of perfect justice, that that the suicide rule may have to be revised. From now on, for liberals, the US Constitution is a suicide pact.


    Welcome to the United States of Liberal America, where righteous fantasies prevail over very real threats to our survival.
     
  2. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Sorry,
    If they're military prisoners of war caught on the battle field,charg'em ,put them in a p.o.w.camp,if they are u.s.citizen civillians they have their constitutional rights to be respected.Any other ideas( grey areas like ("enemy combatant"applied to citizens who don't agree with the state are dangerous,and a sure course for abuse by rogue power...grandma peace protestors are labled "terrorists"(Watch it or i'll knit you a"bush sux "hat,stop me before I knit again!!!)

    I fear the government is more dangerous and has a larger effect on mydaily life than any "terrorist attack.."
    oh right they"hate us for our freedoms", well they can stop hating us now...we are collectively afraid to dissent or ask police" "why are you detaining me?" because we'll get tasered and pepper sprayed,even "waterboarded"for information.

    I'll take the old constitutional republic I was raised in and served. At least I knew I was protected by the rule of law.and one elected official couldn'y bury my a$$ in a solitary confinement cell foryears with no recourse solely on his say so.
    THAT DOESNT MAKE ME A PUSSY A$$ED LIBERAL! IT MAKES ME AN AMERICAN!
     
  3. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    SCOTUS restored the US law honored for the last 232 years. It's called the Constitution and the law is Habeus Corpus.
    It applies to ANY person held by the government, no distinction as to citizenship or constitutional rights etc. that is smoke and mirrors to fool the sheeple.

    "The US Supreme Court has opened a Pandora's Box. It is hard to see any legal barrier against giving enemy combatants Miranda rights, applying civilian rules of evidence to armed combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the end of preemptive action against terrorists. Preemption is only possible for military action --- until now. It is not possible in domestic crimes, because criminals must be considered innocent until proven guilty."

    Blatant propaganda BS. The ruling re-affirms the constitutional constraint on government to hold anyone without showing just cause. It doesn't open the door to any thing else.

    Neo-con police state propaganda.
     
  4. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    So you think Terrorist should have the same rights as you and I? Do you think they would afford us a nice speedy trail if caught in Iraq or Afghan? Speedy head removal yes!
     
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    There has to be a distinction between POWs, those taken in combat situations, and other criminals. Habeas corpus applies to criminals, not combatants, or so it seems to me. However, if they are POWs, other provisions apply, and holding them incommunicado is not one.

    Looks like about 270 Gitmo detainees need to be re-classified into either of those two groupings.

    This business of holding people in limbo is just plain wrong.
     
  6. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    quote paully:

    So you think Terrorist should have the same rights as you and I? Do you think they would afford us a nice speedy trail if caught in Iraq or Afghan? Speedy head removal yes! __________________
    unquote...

    Maybe, just maybe we shouldn't be there?( iraq and afghanistan?)They are trying to rid the middle east of "us".We want the resources. In this case one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter...
    You set up oppressive martial law here and see how long it takes for an "insurgency" to develop. There are plent of country's where your head may be in jeopardy take the northern mexico drug corridor areas's. Do I have any right to force my way in there?
     
  7. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I do believe that terrorists should have the same rights as you and I; that is the only way to insure that you and I will still have any rights.
     
  8. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Couldn't have said it better! We are a nation of laws. And that applies to all. We should be like them I guess. Stoop to thier level. Indiscrimanate incarceration. Imprisonment without regress. Torture and deprivation. Yep, sure glad we're not like them.

    Of course anything is permissable if it is on the terrorists. A terrorist has no rights.

    Who defines "terrorist"?

    A recent former US Attorney General defined a terrorist as anyone who;

    homeschooled thier children

    gave money to a church

    supported the second amendment

    Yep those terroristic bastrads deserve no constitutional protections.
     
  9. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    well you guys said it much more eloquently than I could have. i iagree100%
    with the above.


    Paully you are displaying the eagle, globe ,and anchor .I ,respect, applaud and honor a marines' service.
    I'm sure you believe the cinc and those officers above you can do no wrong,make no mistake, and have the best interest of the country in mind.after you've been out awhile you will see these men for what they are men, afflicted with all the human failings and foilbles that come with the package, and the civilians in the higher positions rarely served; and had to swallow alot of their integrity to get where they are because of the game.They don't know the first thing about honor or integrity/...

    Yes I have a rough time sleeping sometimes,

    added:

    I also realize questioning the decisions of the chain of comand interfere's with a marines staying alive in combat..
     
  10. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    Been out for 8 years guys, no young buck. When it comes to my countries survival vs theirs I always side with us. Those people would not allow us the same freedoms in their country. We can't play nice and expect to win folks. God there is no wonder we are coming apart at the seems in this country. We worry more about foreign combatants than ourselves???

    And I disagree with your assessment of the men I served under. They made mistakes but always meant well, they could be kind people or ruthless if needed!
     
  11. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Amen brother. a fken crying shame, I did my 6 years, I tend not to listen to those who have not.
     
  12. franks71vw

    franks71vw Monkey+++

    Guys both sides have been stated please let us not forget the reason this nation is what it is. Those that left tyranny and fought for freedom... we must also call things what they are if you kill your a murderer plan and simple. The reason we have this on going B.S. is because we have tried to be politically correct so that others won't be offended. Please lets call it what it is and finish with it. This thing of dragging the war and making it into the O.J. simpson trial and only opened up a [cow]. We have not invested in our country and in our people. We need to bring back the American Pride that was around till the end of WWII and make this nation a great nation. We need to stop [beat] each other and complaining about everything and try and make things better for all. We need to bring back honesty, Integrity and for those that don't believe sorry but God back to America. IF you don't wish to believe that is fine your choice but our society needs leadership. We should have learned from the 70's but we didnt let us not make this mistake twice for the future.
     
  13. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++


    Thanks for your service![boozingbuddies]
     
  14. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Well said Frank.
     
  15. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Enemy combatants? Another polysyllabic euphemism for POW. Treat them like POWs. That allows us to hold them for the duration. Seems silly to me to go and create a new name when the old one will do neatly. Makes me tired learning the new vocabulary.
     
  16. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    They are fken terrorist and deserve nothing more than a firing squad.
     
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    OK with me, so long as due process happens. To my mind, it would have been better had they not survived the battlefield, but that was not to be.

    [boozingbuddies]
     
  18. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    [boozingbuddies]
     
  19. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I worry about the term "enemy combatants" being used against americans.The term mutated from "enemy noncombatants".Its redundant obviously in a combat theater an "enemy" would be a"combatant" excepting maybe a medic?
     
  20. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    Not like they show they have medics, this is a non traditional war much like Vietnam. We'll lose for the same reason we lost Vietnam. A weak American society afraid to get their hands dirty. I feel anyone can beat us in this type of war, just slow the fighting down guerrilla style. Just like Nam we are winning the war of attrition but not the minds of our own people? We are a naive society and I think this stems from having it so easy, we are now the softest country in the world.
     
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