Is this for real??? Ain't Democracy great?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bnmb, Jul 30, 2010.


  1. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Just found this...Is this real, or is it a hoax?

    Comply Or Else!
     
  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Of course it's real. If you live in southern Commifornia, I suggest moving to higher ground.
     
  3. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Geeezzz...The American Dream?...Looks more like American Nightmare!
     
  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Everything changes.
     
  5. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Yep... Panta Rei...the problem is that it's changing for the worse...
     
  6. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    A question...In my country government, (as any government does), tries to put up some BS law that people don't like. We bring that law before the Constitutional Court, and they decide if it can pass or not...We killed lots of idiotic law proposals that way..
    Don't you have something like that in the US? Don't you have some supreme court that sticks to the constitution, and has the ability to decide if some law is OK or not? To decide if some law is against the constitution? For every country, constitution is a supreme law, and no laws can be brought that go against the constitution.
    So, how is possible that things like that happen in the US? Your constitution was supposed to be the most libertarian in the world...so, how can you loose your freedoms if everything is according to the constitution?
    Looks very paradoxical to me...
     
  7. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I love it. An outside set of eyes make an observation on what so many of us know is true. Our government has become a sad joke. Power and money has become more important than either the Constitution or the will of the people. Our whole system is upside down. The supreme court at times makes new law rather than hold the country in line with the Constitution. On local and state and federal levels new laws get passed that are unconstittutional, and they stand unchallenged. As a good friend of mine says, "common sense no longer is a common thing." People such as us here at Survival Monkey who strongly believe that the clock should be turned back and the Constitution should be the "law of the land" appear to be in the minority, and out of touch with reality. In fact to some in government, the fact that some of us call ourselves "Constitutionalists" makes us potential domestic terrorists in their eyes. Almost all of us are trying to do all we can in a peaceful manner to reverse this abhorant situation. To say or do more would be considered sedition. There is much I haven't said here that makes my heart ache and my blood boil. I love this country but, hate the road she has taken. Whether or not we will be able to heal her in my lifetime remains to be seen.
     
  8. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    The supreme court makes laws??? Are they allowed to do that? In my country Constitutional Court can only approve or annul a law or annex or decision which is not in compliance with the constitution. They CAN NOT MAKE laws!
    And why those new laws are unchallenged??? Here journalists and common people can place a petition or request to the CC to rule over a law or annex or whatever...Why would people not challenge bad laws??
    I just don't get it...I guess there are some things about US that I just don't know or understand...ah, yes...one of them is IRS and taxes...If there is no law that clearly states that ordinary working people should pay taxes, and that they are on voluntary bases, why do you pay them? And how can they put you in jail if you don't pay taxes, if it's not a law?
    Is that IRS more powerful than Supreme court? Is it above and beyond the law?
    I just don't get these things...I really don't understand...
     
  9. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    Simple - our Government has become corrupt and agenda-driven. The pay 'lip service' to our Constitution, while in fact working in total opposition to it.
    We who see the problem and would change it (by voting) if we could are vastly out-numbered by the Welfare Roll junkies and Entitilement Crowd who depend upon exactly this corrupt Governemnt for their sustenance - thus they continue to vote the criminals back into office, and "the beat goes on"...... [booze]
     
  10. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    No. the Supreme court CANNOT make laws. They are NOT allowed to do that. What they ARE allowed to do is enforce the Constitution, i.e. hear and then return an opinion about the enforcement of a law under the constitution (I probably worded that incorrectly). In other words, they would hear a complaint about the violations discussed in this article and determine if the laws in place at the state level are constitutional or unconstitutional. Then they release an opinion (and precedence) describing how the Constitution supports or does not support the law(s).

    Only congress can make laws. The judges interpret the law. Interpretation is a problem because not every judge interprets the same way, so what you end up with, sometimes, is a law "trans-morphed" into some wacky version of the original as result of the decision. This is how (at least how I believe) judges get around not being able to "make law"; they just make the law "mean" something else.
     
  11. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    HUH...As Stalin would say: It's not who is organizing or performing the elections...It's who's counting the votes...And since you have everything computerized...Not looking good...
    We vote the old-fashioned way...paper and pen. You go to voting place, show ID, take paper, circle your choice, put paper in box, get sprayed on finger with invisible UV ink, go home, drink bear...
    And they still tell us from EU that we need to improve on our "democracy"...World sucks... :)
     
  12. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Now I see your problem...JUDGES interpret the laws!!! Here Constitutional Court interprets the laws...If there is a problem, or something is unclear with a law, CC gives official and definite interpretation...Period! They reject lots of laws for poor wording or hazy and unclear defining of points. If a law has passed, and there is a conflict in interpretation, CC decides how it will be interpreted once and for all...
    I really wonder why it's not the same way in the US...looks like very fair system...ensures the law is same everywhere and for everyone...
     
  13. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Supreme court justices here are appointed for life when there is a vacancy by the standing president. they must then be confirmed by the house of representatives. if the president is left leaning and the house is left leaning, you can safely bet a vacancy will be filled with a left leaning judge. the judges seem to care less about the constitution at time than about public sentiment, thus bad rulings. the supreme court is the last and final say in any given subject that comes before them. then throw in corruption, sex, money, power, and can you begin to see how things can be so skewed? Taxes, .... under the IRS you are guilty until proven innocent! Opposite as what is said in the constitution or bill of rights. taxes are deducted from your pay before you ever see a penny. then you must file to get any refund you may have coming for that year if you have paid in too much. they get theirs first you have no real choice about not paying. and trust me if you fail to pay somehow, they will take all they can in fines and penalties and then throw your butt in jail also.
     
  14. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    The way it is supposed to work, simplified:
    Propose a law
    Debate it, get it into form
    Pass it
    Then, someone has to get caught out disobeying
    Once its been disobeyed, the law can be challenged, and work its way thru the court system from local courts all the way up to SCOTUS.
    Challenges can also be initiated by suits such as the current Arizona flap, so in that regard, we can do as you can do.

    In reality, the courts don't make the laws, they interpret the words as enacted, and sometimes have to look toward intent. This is where things can go awry; the intent may not be explicit or have unintended effects, and thus become subject to the leanings of the judge's politics. Sure seems like they make law sometimes, but it just ain't so; it comes from interpretation that becomes precedent. Precedent is an established basis for a lot of court decisions, thus bad interpretations become defacto law. SCOTUS cannot "approve" or "annul" a law in any way other than supporting or rejecting a lower court's decision, but they can render it useless if it violates the Constitution; the law remains on the books until the legislature removes it. (Who in his right mind would try to enforce a law that would invariably result in reversal on appeal with damages to the defendant?)

    The IRS is another subject for another time. For now, the common weal opens the door for taxation. In my mind the concept is good, the problem is in the implementation.
     
  15. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned


    For life?!?! Geeezzz...Like Emperors...I'm speechless...
    About taxes...we also pay taxes like the rest of the world, but since there is no law that mandates paying that final annual tax in US, how can IRS, or the government put people in jails??? It's not rule of Tthe law then, it's bullying! The feudalism was better than that! In feudalism, peasants paid only what was agreed or written as law...
    Anyone ever saw a law in US that states that every person must fill for taxes with IRS, and where it says what penalties are? I was told by a friend of mine, here in Macedonia that such law does not exist. Does anyone has any site I could see that law if it exists?
     
  16. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Thomas Jefferson made so very many wise and thoughtful comments about our then fledgling nation. One was--the blood of tyrants and patriots must be spilled occasionally to preserve freedom. Let's hope it doesn't come to that end. We still have the ballot box--Remember in November.
     
  17. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    As I said before. The IRS operates differently. They can freeze bank accounts, seize assets, garnish wages, impose extremely high fines and penalties for pennies in dispute. You are guilty until you prove your innocence. They have 100's maybe 1000's of lawyers that have nothing better to do than makes their bones and look good for advancement within their ranks on the backs of the middle class (rich enough to have assets to seize, and to poor to provide much of a defense without bankrupting their family in the progress). Free public defenders (lawyers) in this country for the most part also are a joke (one of the quickest ways to get convicted). No one understands our tax code. Call the IRS info phone line and ask a question 3 days in a row, it's a safe bet you will get at least 2 different answers, and there is a pretty good chance you will get 3 different answers. Our tax code is over 66,000 pages long.
     
  18. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    And if you don't have the MONEYto keep APPEALING the bad ruling to the supreme court, you're crap outta luck.
     
  19. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I think you understated the facts, but I also think you were keeping your answer simple. The truth is, that the situation is far worse than this. The "voting base" that you described is only part of the problem. The entire voting system is an illusion -the people really have zero say in who becomes the next appointed liaison to the banks (president). The media and the system itself have become the stick to beat the crowd with in order to gain the illusion of acceptance, or overall justification for despotic rule. Most people assume that they have a voice, that they have a "vote", but all they have ever had is the illusion of choice -a two sided coin with the same damn result. The Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group, and all of their political snakes make it impossible for any real change to ever occur from within the system that has been adopted. It's corrupt to its very core. There is no "vote" by We the People, no need to even count and tabulate the real data. The Electoral College supersedes the popular vote every time, and even if this wasn't the case, there is enough "Die-Bold" voting and ticket scandal going on to warrant investigations into campaign corruption and vote tampering. The elite laugh in your face and tell jokes about how stupid and pathetic the American People have become. Slaves. Serfs. Nothing more -that's what the People are to them.

    With mega-corporations and banking cartels running the show, there is little chance for liberty to ever flourish again. It will take a complete revolution of the mind and conscience to return this nation to liberty. And the people will still have to stand together in order to do the rest.

    Divided, living in fear, without knowledge of what the republic truly is, massive exploitation of the privately owned monetary system, corruption, greed, complacency, the disposable society lifestyle, psychological warfare, poisoned food supplies, contaminated water, drugged and euthenized civilians, government education, psy-ops media, radical religious groups, feminists, racists, gays and lesbians, neocons, liberals, bipartisanship, high dollar private prisons, false flag ops, police state indoctrination -all of this and more to deal with every day in this supposed "free" nation of ours. Criminalizing our public, turning them all into obedient, mindless slaves for the New World Order and socialist, despotic rule; this is the future for humanity.

    And the fools at the top only gain momentum from the people who choose to believe it is hopeless to resist. They want you to feel empty and scared. They expect to win this war with economics and subversion of the mind and spirit. Well, they have another thing coming if they think we will all go without a fight.
     
  20. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Brokor's statement is partially evidenced by the existence of the "Journolist". Bunch of scum bags.
     
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