Islam in a Nutshell

I understand and acknowledge your point (and Chelloveck's)...especially when I think which way the wind was blowing in the era of Tomás de Torquemada in terms of being aware that a muzzie's ire over what we perceive to be trivial nonsense was not much different than our Christian past. But, I agree with Tac's #17 post's logic.

What you and Chell refer to--yes, Christian's were brutal (and a very small few still are), but was the past. In terms of degree and frequency of violence, Christians today pale in comparison to Christians of just a few centuries ago. It's time to be aware of what century this is--the age of nook-ya-ler fusion.

Some of the leaders of the Islamic world know better: they've been educated in the West and choose to go back and be kings of the stone age--they want to keep their people in the dark.

Here's the irony: we (Americans) are lambasting the muzzies for playing dirty pool. However, at least once a week, some Monkey reminds us that soon, it will be time to take up arms against our own govt. because we're not getting our way--the Constitutional way (although ~50% of the population thinks they are). So, we're lambasting one group for fighting for something they believe very strongly in (the Quoran way), while advocating for my group to do the very same thing. Hypocritical perhaps? Maybe...we could figure it out over a few dozen beers....

No. Again, I think our violence would be a last resort. Other things have been tried (e.g., elections, peaceful protests, letters). I'll bet if you asked those yelling to nuke the ME, which is probably just bravado, they would admit while it sounds good on a bumper sticker, nuking anything in this day and age is a last resort. Moreover, I think you'd find this group that advocates nuking to be very small.

But, a radical muzzie is ruled by emotion, not intellect (unless we're talking about the muzzie puppetmasters who know exactly what they're doing). Thus, I think you'd find the group wanting to nuke Israel to be relatively large, as a proportion of the muzzies in the ME. Yes, they've been brought up this way from an early age....maybe so, but that doesn't absolve them of their desire to destroy an entire ethnic group just because they don't like holy book. So, this group poses a more real danger than what might happen if ultra-Christian groups come into power sometime in the future.

Do I have any data to back this up? Nope. And I don't really care...if I'm wrong, and there's more peace loving muzzies than we know about, then, I'm just a bigot. If I'm right, and nothing is done, we're all in a very real danger from the continued increase in muzzie proliferation. So, while I'm aware of our past, I'm also aware that this group of ignorant people (not meant in a pejorative way) can't handle the world in which they live, they want a barbaric world that they understand--thusly, they should just stick to their meager existence and ignore the rest of the world as it goes by. Therefore, they don't get a seat at the table when determining it's future because that future is the same answer to them: all Islam or nothing. No nukes for them...sorry, but you can't be trusted with them.

(Yes...yes Chell, I know the great Satan pale-face is doing a wonderful job of destroying the planet and oppressing the rest of the world...the muzzies would just hasten the inevitable).

 

Thanks, bit surprise to me!
jim

 

We have the muscle, we just don't abuse it. That makes a world of difference.
jim

 

Christianity or Islam --sometimes I can't tell the difference-----I practice the oldest religion in the world native American Indian spiritualism and it teaches that everything is connected--it has been taught since the dawn of time---I would for once in my life like to see just once other people get along and let the other pray to whoever they want to even if its a fire plug or a rock---no one knows who is right till they cross over and before you try to pick mine apart think glass houses and rocks---sorry for the rant

 

If you (anyone) can't see the danger of fanatical muslims and the fact that fanatical muslims do in fact make up a decent percentage of muslims then you are blind.

I recognize that there are muslims that are not fanatical and don't want to kill everyone non muslim but there is such a large number of them that do you can't deny the type of people they are and the danger they pose to those around them. What happened in Libya recently is a small example of many.

 

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf: Let the Global Movement of Moderates Rise

Sep 20, 2012 2:44 PM EDT
Those behind the anti-Islam video and those protesting violently against it are both extremists working to ignite a clash of religions. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the man behind the Ground Zero Mosque plan, offers a call to action for all moderates to push back.


The people in the United States who made the obscene video that enflamed the Muslim world and the people in Egypt who found it, translated it, and publicized it as the latest Western affront to Islam think they are mortal enemies.

They are not. They are allies in extremism.

The world is divided between those working hard to forge harmony among people of different religions and the extremists working hard to ignite a “clash of religions.”

It is up to the majority—who are coming together as the Global Movement of Moderates—to push back against the extremists of all faiths. We must counter those who erroneously believe that smearing another religion is the best way to defend their own.

And we certainly must condemn those who believe that taking innocent lives—whether it is suicide bombers exploding in marketplaces or killers of American diplomats in Libya—is somehow endorsed by Islam.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf speaks to reporters March 6, 2011, in Times Square. (Robert Nickelsberg / Getty Images)

As an imam who has spent a lifetime studying the Quran and Islamic law, I know that Islam prohibits taking any innocent life. The Quran states: “No soul shall be held responsible for the crimes of another.” The Quran equates killing an innocent with killing all of humankind.

In the Quran, God tells us not to insult the beliefs of others, lest they take revenge by insulting God. God’s plan in creating and testing humankind requires Muslims to respect every human being’s right to accept or reject God. That means accepting religious freedom and all other religious communities.

By taking the bait offered by extremist Islamophobes, we Muslims embarrass ourselves, reinforce stereotypes held by those who hate us, and sin against God.

In the Quran, God explicitly criticized believers, even the Prophet, for prohibiting that which God has permitted. We must bring that openness to protect religious diversity. We have clear instructions in the Quran that tell us, “to you your religion, to me mine.”

Threatening to wipe out Jews, or Christians, or members of any faith; or Sunnis killing Shia and Shia killing Sunnis, or terrorist attacks against the United States—none of this can be supported by the Quran or any holy book.

The first step is to recognize the enemy. It’s not Islam. It’s not Christianity. It’s not Judaism. It is anyone in any faith who would destroy and kill in the name of religion.​

​

As we have seen, it takes only one extremist action to ignite a counter-reaction from extremists on the other side that lights the world on fire and undermines security and economic prosperity.

Opposition groups then use extremist reaction to their own ends, undermining government and pushing political agendas, some of which are hardline.

Just as Republican challenger Mitt Romney—to advance his own political campaign—used the turmoil caused by the video protests to castigate President Obama’s policies of positively engaging the Muslim world, political opposition parties in Muslim majority nations are castigating their governments for positively engaging with the United States—to advance their domestic political agendas.

That’s why Malaysian Prime Minister Mohammad Najib Abdul Razak launched the Global Movement of Moderates to galvanize the opposition to extremist ideology in all faith traditions.

“It is time for us, the majority who are peace-loving and moderate, to reclaim our rightful place,” he said.

Western leaders have embraced his movement. British Prime Minister David Cameron told Najib in Malaysia in April, “I’ve been keen to share a platform with you on the Global Movement of Moderates.” Said U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, “We are eager to support [Najib] and other leaders to take up this call.”

This is a call to action for all moderates. The first step is to recognize the enemy. It’s not Islam. It’s not Christianity. It’s not Judaism. It is anyone in any faith who would destroy and kill in the name of religion. It is anyone who would deny a person’s right to the free practice of religion.

People of good faith in all religions need to turn their backs on the extremists who wish to divide us and not let them dictate events and seize control of the dialogue. It’s not an easy thing to do. But it’s our best hope for a safe, just, and thriving world.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/20/imam-feisal-abdul-rauf-let-the-global-movement-of-moderates-rise.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=cheatsheet_afternoon&cid=newsletter;email;cheatsheet_afternoon&utm_term=Cheat Sheet

 

brokor---i should have kept writing more and said I know Islam is dangerous and deadly--Islam is doing just like the white man did to my people--first a few come and preach peace UNTIL more is there to push you out further to take over the area THEN a few to another area to preach peace TILL they get stronger over and over------I do hate ISLAM for what it does to women and children----if they should ever come around here to cram their crap down my throat ---well-- from my cold dead hands

 

Minuteman, I can certainly agree with the general theme of your arguments and, therefore, I'm afraid that I must not have made my overall point very well throughout these posts. It is not my intent to slam Christianity in general. It is not my intent to say that Christianity is a violent religion.

My intent is to say that as Christianity is not necessarily in and of itself violent, neither is Islam. The violence is a result of angry people interpreting their religion to justify their anger and their violent actions. My intent is to say that culture is responsible for the disconnect between predominantly Christian western nations and predominantly Muslim Middle Eastern nations, not religion. Religion is a reflection, sometimes a somewhat blurred reflection, of the culture which embraces it. The very fact that you can have "moderate" Muslims says to me that the religion itself is not the source of the violence. The fact that a prominent Imam, such as Imam Abd AlRauf, stands up and says "this violence does not represent Islam" says to me that the perpetrators of this violence are using Islam as a smokescreen and as justification for their violent acts.

When I reference Christianity's violent past, I am not attempting to say that the religion itself is at fault; but that just as violent cultures can use Christianity as justification for their bloody acts, violent cultures can also use Islam, and that is what we're seeing today.

I hope that I am preaching to the choir when I say to you that most of the Muslims I have encountered over the years would be, and I am sure are, appalled by this violent interpretation of their religion. I have had Muslims as students, I have had Muslims as teachers, I have had Muslims as co-workers, and I have had Muslims as friends; and they have been, almost without exception, good people. I have found good people and bad people in the Middle Eastern countries to which I have traveled, whether it be in Lebanon, Egypt, Bahrain, or Morocco, but I have never found Islam to be the deciding factor between good and bad.

I am saying that just as a profession of Christianity does not an angel make, neither doth a profession of Islam a devil make.

 

First off does anyone still think that the Libyan attack was because of that video? It's pretty well known that did not actually have anything to do with the attack.

Second, are you seriously trying to compare a Christian making a movie exposing islam to terrorists attacking, kidnapping, brutally raping and killing innocent people? Lets see, freedom of speech vs. assault, kidnapping, rape and murder. That pretty much tells me everything I need to know about you.

There are peacful muslims and I do believe the majority as in more than 50% are not extremists but muslims across many countries riot and kill over anything that they deem offensive all the time. This is not just a small minority that doesn't matter and peaceful muslims are not tripping over themselves condemning their behavior, maybe it is because they fear for their life if they speak out against it........

BTW I think its stupid to make videos like they did but it's much, much worse to use that to justify assault, kidnapping, rape and murder and condeming someones right to free speech. Maybe your from a different country but in the USA freedom of speech is a right we cherish and even though many people say things that offend me greatly the same freedom they have is the same freedom that guarantees I can say what I want.

Are you a muslim?

 

First, those weren't my words you quoted, they were spoken by Imam Abd AlRauf, a man who knows more about Islam than you, I, and all of the people on this forum put together.

Second, his comments were about the outrage in general, not about the attack on the Libyan consulate.

Third, who got raped? Did I miss something? Please provide a source link and elucidate. (and I mean a credible source. I've seen the bogus claims of the silly hate rags about ambassador Stevens. Credible news sources report that Ambassador Stevens was found still alive, and was taken to hospital by his Libyan Muslim rescuers. Ambassador Stevens died of smoke inhalation.)

Fourth, "muslims across many countries riot and kill over anything that they deem offensive all the time" is a pretty general statement. Generally (pun intended), people use generalities because they don't have the actual knowledge which would enable them to be more specific. I try to limit my comments to things that I actually know something about. You won't find me debating physics or electrical engineering with anyone on here, or saying things like "structural engineers use substandard contractors and materials all the time" because I don't know what I'm talking about in that area.

Fifth, I grew up in the good old USA. The difference between myself and some others is that I actually "grew up" rather than just becoming older. I figure "putting away childish things" includes ignorant, play-ground bully-like attitudes about my fellow man. I cherish the right to free speech, and will even defend the right of people to say ignorant things. I just don't have to agree with them.

Sixth, I grew up in a Southern Baptist Evangelical Fundamentalist church. Which means that at one time, my thinking was pretty much on par with yours. Of course, that was thirty years or so ago.

Last, is your screen name actually an acknowledgement of a Greek who threw such a pity party after not being given Achilles's armor, that he ran off and killed himself, or is it about the powdered cleansing agent? Just curious.

 

Yeah, I saw that; and then I read the credible news sources.

 

That freedom of speech thing can be a tricky rascal, popping up in all sorts of unexpected places, and at the most inopportune times. Apparently, this Lebanese rag quoted a French report of the incident, and then added the "raped" part for a little more journalistic umph. AFP, the french agency named in the Lebanese story, immediately issued a correction to what Tayyar had reported. I think, without exception, mainstream US media is reporting that Ambassador Stevens was found barely alive, and was taken to the hospital by Libyans, where he was pronounced dead from smoke inhalation, and only smoke inhalation. There were no injuries to his body reported.

 

I can see your pretty desperate here. You quoted the article to make your point so it's obvious you support what it said or you would have stated otherwise.

Do you really think they all four died from smoke inhalation, did the autopsy report come out proving what he died from . He arrived and was pronounced dead. There have been multiple sources in multiple locations report what happened and how it went down the info is out there to anyone that has been paying attention. Even if you remove rape from the accusation everything else is the same it's irrelevant, terrorists attacked a embassy and four people are dead because of it.

muslims rioting over every little thing is not some obscure hidden thing, it has been happening for a long time in many different countries over many different things. To deny it is just plain silly. I’m not saying that’s how most muslims act but a decent percentage of them do.

So let me get this straight. I call you out for comparing Christians for making a movie about islam to terrorists attacking, kidnapping, and killing innocent people and you are going to accuse me of not growing up and using bully tactics? Are you serious?

Judging by your answers I will assume you are a muslim and that makes no difference to me, not that my opinion matters to you. I’m not asking in a accusing way, I’m just wondering why someone would post such an article to prove their point. I know some muslims that are nice people and wish them the best of luck.

As far as the name Ajax goes what are you talking about? The cleaning product plus trying to figure out a user name produced the avatar Ajax. Are you a drug addict from Tulia Texas http://www.amazon.com/dp/158648219X/?tag=survivalmonke-20 ?


Few links
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...e-siege-that-killed-four-was-terrorist-attack

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/libyan-embassy-gitmo-attack/2012/09/19/id/456846


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/21/w...a-terrorist-attack-white-house-says.html?_r=0

More muslim mayhem: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/21/1-killed-after-police-fire-on-anti-us-protests-in-pakistan/

Even more, and this is just the current run of riots: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-09-21-09-24-55

I could spend hours upon hours posting similar articles about muslims rioting, killing etc.

 

Okay, I admit it, you've got me figured out. I'm a sneaky drug addicted Muslim infiltrator from Texas. I should have known some genius would ferret me out. You American devils are so clever.

I do agree with the points made in the article, and that is why I posted it; to help shine a little light into the eyes of the blind. Imam Abd AlRauf is a real Muslim, not one of the rioting idiots who are no more deserving of the title Muslim, than most of the Christians I come into contact with are deserving of the title Christian. People all over claim religious labels, and then disgrace their religion through their actions. I'm sure you know a couple of people in that category yourself.

You've got your path to walk, and I have mine. I have no illusions about changing the minds of the willfully ignorant, but to sit by an listen to hateful rants and not speak up makes me complicit, therefore I speak up. Even if I am the only voice in the room to speak up, speak up I will. I am responsible only for the marks on my soul when I meet the ferryman. (That's another Greek mythological reference. You can look it up when you look up Ajax, and figure out what Greek mythological figure owned your name before you.) As Salamu 'Alikum ya Sadiqi