It's TIME to declare independence!

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by ChristianIndependence, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. ChristianIndependence

    ChristianIndependence Founding Father of a New Nation

    It's TIME to declare independence!

    I have launched an independence movement hours ago (although I was preparing for months because I predicted this would happen) and we are already recieving volunteers and donations! Join us now!

    Link deleted by staff. Funding requests are inappropriate in this thread.

    We only need 13,500 signatures in North Dakota, 14,000 in South Dakota, 24,500 in Montana, 26,000 in Wyoming, and 54,000 in Idaho and with that mere 135,000 signatures we could create a new "Free States of America" with 5 contiguous states which would lead to a "domino effect" of 22 other GOP states leaving and joining the new Free States of America.

    In the North Dakota example, we have roughly 400 days to collect signatures which means one person could do it SINGLEHANDEDLY if they collect 35 signatures a day (or about 280 per weekend by visiting churches, busy city areas, etc). If you live in a state that doesn't allow initiatives you can MOVE there and start doing this, but please coordinate with me.

    I am also organizing independence initiatives in 15 other states to join with those 5 (those are the easy ones), so I am trying to organize 20 different statewide Independence ballot initiative efforts, so obviously, I NEED VOLUNTEERS and DONATIONS! Put your money where your mouth is if you love liberty or love God or love the Constitution! If I can get a dozen people to move to the Dakotas if you don't live there, you can probably collect the signatures in 4 weeks. Please donate as well, it's entirely possible if I can just get ONE donor who donates $135,000 I can hire signature gatherers (typical rate is $1/sig but with this issue I can probably pay them $0.50 a signature because people are more jazzed about this issue and it's easier to collect signatures for when you yell out to sign a petition for independence/secession). But I understand no one has that much cash lying around so just donate $100 or whatever you can! So join us at christianindependence . org
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2015
  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Awaiting moderator approval. Even if it is a good cause, you must be properly vetted to advertise.
    And you have to change the name and title of your organization if you expect any help from me. I won't accept any form of independence run from the auspices of religion, trading one tyranny for another. Our original doctrine left room for a supreme being, but it was a universal reference, and its purpose (arguably) was to keep the power of the origination of rights out of the hands of mankind. The reference is to the eternal “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God", not just a Christian one. And no offense intended, either.
  3. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    There is no successful method to do this, other than full blown civil war. Only Texas reserved the Right to break away after joining,( if they didn't like it here), and they gave up that Right many years ago.
    You can argue, you can gripe, you can work for change, but the only method of separation is bloodshed.
    The Founding Father's did allow for a complete reset of the nation, should we decide on another type of government, but not on severing ties that bind.
    Gathering signatures for the permission to leave that will never be granted, can not be granted, is a waste of effort.
    You can pass all the initiatives you can write, but the framework for the implementation does not exist.
    There is no path to your goal, besides wading through the blood of your countrymen.

    I will not join you.
  4. ChristianIndependence

    ChristianIndependence Founding Father of a New Nation

    So you will just suffer tamely instead? You will do nothing?

    If we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom
    - Samuel Adams, founding father.

    This is the ONLY path that offers a gradual, peaceful independence. Once a few states have over 51% of the population that voted for independence, the Federal Government will have no choice but to grant it, because even Obama himself has praised the "right of self-determination" (secession) and called it a "fundamental human right" when referring to Palestine's right to secede from Israel. These hypocrites have walled themselves in. They cannot claim to be Democratic if they trample the will of a majority of citizens in our states. We will ask them REPEATEDLY and PEACEFULLY for independence once the vote is held.

    Besides, the Northeast liberals constantly say they wish Texas and other states would leave. This will be a happy, amicable divorce! They will no longer have the GOP filibustering their communist atheist "utopia", and we can run a christian, capitalist, constitutional society that respects the rule of law unlike this lawless President and lawless Supreme Court which gave themselves legislative powers.

    Oh sorry about that, I wasn't really advertising in the traditional sense. It's not a business. It's a political movement. But I will go through whatever vetting process before I post the link again. As for "run from the auspices of religion" comment, you already accept one if you say the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, or praise George Washington! George Washington ordered the Continental Army to "pray and fast" after a defeat, dedicated a day to "praying and fasting" (ordered them not to do any work on the 22nd after a defeat and pray for victory instead), etc.

    "Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it [free government], can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?"
    - George Washington's farewell address
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    The MODs are evaluating this fellows Post, for appropriateness in light of the CoC and Policy....
    Brokor, chelloveck and HK_User like this.
  6. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    "Once a few states have over 51% of the population that voted for independence, the Federal Government will have no choice but to grant it, because even Obama himself has praised the "right of self-determination""
    Why would you quote a known liar and assume he would tell the truth?
    Why do you assume you live in a Democracy, for you do not, and never have. A true Democracy is mob rule %51 could make slaves of the %49. Learn more of your history than just a few quotes.
    You do not have the legal RIGHT to suceed from the Union. There is NO EXIT MECHANISM besides bloodshed. NONE.
    A storm of paper will only inflict papercuts.
    To have ANY lasting effects, you MUST change laws. You MUST revoke the War Powers Act. Because while it is in effect, there are NO CHECKS AND BALANCES to the government we DO have.
    Learn your history, before you try to change the future.
    Brokor, chelloveck and BTPost like this.
  7. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    MOD Action: Moved this Fellows Post and subsequent Posts to it's own Thread... as it was Thread Drift where it was....
  8. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Interesting and I find his motivation to be quite good. I think he will get his wish in one way or another in the coming couple years. To secede and everyone please get the spelling right is not a right of the states but that does not stop them from doing it. The 10th amendment has always been filed prior to secession . I agree however that only with much bloodshed will it happen. We are not there yet. Not enough mainstream Americans have had their lights turned off so to speak yet. Its coming and that is why we prep. Who knows maybe this group will be among the new statesmen leading the charge.
  9. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    sorry that is a contradiction of terms... the constitution does not say we are a Christian nation...The First Amendment guarantees freedoms concerning religion, expression, assembly, and the right to petition. It forbids Congress from both promoting one religion over others and also restricting an individual’s religious practices.
  10. 10brokenpromises

    10brokenpromises Monkey++

    @ChristianIndependence - If I had to guess, and I don't but I will, you recently woke up. You are "mad as hell and you aren't going to take it anymore". Believe me when I say I know how you feel. I could be wrong but I'm going to continue with this base assumption in mind.

    When I woke up, I too was mad as hell. I was furious. I was, quite literally, in tears at times due to what I realized was both happening and had already happened. I was rash in my urges and desires. I wanted to fix it, to be the agent of change, up to and including being the Angel of Death if necessary. There is one very important, critically important you might say, problem with that mindset; at this point you have no idea what you are up against, none.

    As it sits, this country cannot be fixed. We are a house divided (Lincoln 1858, not Mark 3:25), and as such the end result of what you propose may very well come to pass but not in the manner that you are suggesting. As @kellory has said, there is no legal way in which even a single state can secede from this union. There can be no divorce between some parties and not others. This union, for good or ill, is an all or nothing institution and I would go so far as to say that even Texas no longer has the legal ability to extricate itself.

    This "divorce" of which you speak can only come about in the same way that the colonies separated themselves from England; through revolt, revolution, through war. All the platitudes you have quoted, all the petitions you propose, all the well-meaning best intentions in the world pale in comparison to the resources of your adversary.

    Secession is not a simple matter of petitions. You would truly need an army of some of the finest legal minds in the world because you aren't just taking your marbles and going home, you are proposing to create a new country, a brand new entity that is completely surrounded by the country it is extricating itself from or at least bordered on 3 of the four sides. Think about that for a minute, really think about that. What all does it entail? How about currency? Even if you use the gold and silver standard you will need sufficient quantities to mint coins. Thinking about some sort of fiat? Go for it and we'll see you in 200 years and ask how that worked out. How about transportation? Hope you have a really good relationship with Canada (who is an ally of your former abusive landlord). Don't for a second think you will be granted free reign right off the bat to fly over portions of the US, because it won't happen.

    Power grid, water, Internet access, phone service (land line and cell phones), border protection (both ways), determining who will and won't be a citizen and how they can change status, manufacturing, trade, all those things come into play because you are a brand new entity on the world stage and you are the worst kind of fool if you believe that a handful of states has what it takes to be fully self sufficient in that arena. And these are just the tip of the iceberg.

    Nevermind the fact that it won't happen. I don't care that this is going to sound heartless because it's the exact opposite. If I didn't care I wouldn't put any time into this! If your proposal looks to be gaining steam, one of a very few things is going to happen, bank on it; you and your inner circle will disappear or wind up dead, you will be infiltrated and your utopia will be brought into line just like every other country out there (assuming you survive and somehow you succeed, which you won't), or you will be bought off (or at least the offer will be made) and if you don't play ball the full force of the powers that be (including but not limited to the US Government) will destroy you. That's really it, those are your options, the exits if you will on the road you are currently on.

    It's not just a few corrupt politicians. It isn't lobbyists or mismanaged agencies or even power hungry individuals. This is so vast, so all encompasing that when people talk about a reboot via EMP or God forbid nuclear war, it's because that is the only possible way to loose the chains that currently bind us and tear the reins from the hands of those who would control everything about our lives.

    Do yourself a favor and take a deep breath. You're spitting mad right now, including at me, which is fine. This is the Internet and I've been on it since the literal beginning. I'm not at all concerned about your feelings towards me so save it. But be rational and think things through completely. If you want to try to change things, start local. It may not make a bit of difference in the long run but you will at least see some reward for your effort. Win friends and influence people, there are more of us out there than you realize but the smart ones, well they aren't going to want to have a thing to do with you. Sorry, that's the truth.

    It's like the long gun carriers vs. the concealed carriers at Target (look it up, not going to retell the story), but the in your face rifle toting groups did more damage by being, well, in your face than they helped. Target now asks that you please not open carry. No outright bans but they had no stance at all until the issue was pushed front and center in living, evil black rifle, color. Pick the battles my friend, and choose wisely. Change the law so what you propose is even possible (assuming that law would ever get changed).

    Realistically, unless you are older than I think you are, this may very well have fallen on deaf ears. You quite possibly will ignore every word of it except to rile you up more. But this isn't going to end well and if you don't stop and rethink this, you will end up as a footnote, maybe, if that much.

    And as has been said already by myself and others, there is no legal means to separate, none. So, what you are then proposing is an act of sedition. Is that your aim? Is that your goal? If so, please leave now of your own accord because talk of that nature will not be permitted here. Everyone here is pretty sure they are already on a government watch list but that is one line we will not cross here, on this board. Elsewhere others may or may not tolerate it but if you are proposing, and it honestly sounds like at it's base you are, that we rebel, that we break the law as it is written, that you are want a revolution, take it to the next town son because you'll find no buyers here, at least not openly.

    If, however, that isn't what you are proposing, do yourself a favor and educate yourself. @Brokor is probably the most well versed in this topic here on this board. Search out his threads and linked articles and books and learn what it is you are up against.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  11. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    Concerning independence, history shows shooting politicians and despots produces faster results.

  12. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    chelloveck likes this.
  13. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Our nation was founded in a unique way; some of the men who held authority and wealth, assumed the responsibility to stand with every colonist. They dared to defy a King thousands of miles away separated by an ocean. The desire to achieve liberty such as could only have previously been fantasized about, was realized not through rebelling against tyranny, but in the attempt to prosper financially. It was the King's own fault --his greed and his pride which forced the hands of the colonists. The people over here were being taxed and considered property of the Crown by extension, and had no sovereign right to prosper.

    And we have come full circle, ending up at the beginning, but it is much worse now. We do not even have an accord with each other on "who" the true enemy really is, let alone acknowledge the depth and scope of slavery which exists. Many people falsely believe they are free, and this is the genius behind the terrible deed. The fact that Britain could not militarily gain control over the continent we call home, sent them into a new mode for conquest: economics. From the earliest days of our fledgling republic, the European bankers have had control of the private banking system, starting with the very First Bank of the United States, to the current Federal Reserve System now operating under the Emergency of War. The President is a dictator, made so by Congress, and only the President may rescind this power. The fact still remains, every President and every Secretary of Treasury works directly for the Banking Cartel (IMF). Like it or not, this is the New World Order, and it is going to be the future for humanity until the people can become educated, unite and resist.

    I think the post by Kellory is flawless. Signatures will not help you.

    There's no reason to believe a non-violent solution exists to our current problem unless the people can find a way to unite, and that's becoming increasingly less likely day by day. How many people, do you figure, would rather protect their spouse and children from harm than to risk everything in protest? And, at the end of the day, we are facing tyranny. No tyrant has ever abdicated due to peaceful protest, and never will.

    And what about violence, then? @ChristianIndependence Do you really believe -honestly, that all the great minds at work to implement corporate global control forgot to shore up the back door before pushing forward this far? Certainly they must have known the people would resist eventually. All the ammunition the .Gov has ordered wasn't for foreign military use. They have run every possible scenario you could think of and practiced a response as well as prepared for anything you could throw at them. From rebellion, to sabotage, subversion and even secession -all of it. Yes, we could "secede" on paper and in our minds, but without the actual military forces and unity of the people (and we have neither) to back it up, we've got nothing. We can't even gain control of the media, let alone our three branches of government. Ironically enough, even this government doesn't exist, it's all incorporated. This isn't about an ocean separating two sides any more and the luxury of many weeks in between armies landing. We are facing a modern opponent, with incredible weaponry and instant response time. Your coup will fail and you will be arrested, imprisoned or killed on sight. A staged event will occur, and professional crisis actors will arrive and put on a good show. The black ops soldiers who report to underground military cities will kill anybody they are commanded to kill. And you would just be seen as another "Terrorist"™ trying to join ISIL according to the corporate media. You will be blamed for everything. The sheep will believe them, too. They will call for your execution, demand blood. You will sit in a Federal Court, no television, no audio. A sketch of you sitting with your head bowed and tears on your face will be posted to the media. They will claim you recanted and confessed to committing a heinous crime. All will believe the lie. You will lose your war against tyranny.

    No, if you're gonna do it -do it right.

    Educate people and use truth, not scripture. Work to undermine the media, start by supporting alternative media or creating your own outlet. Unite the people by showing them how .Gov uses race, sexual preference, wealth, gender, religion and any affiliation to create dependent fodder for their campaigns and policy making. Resist by spreading the message of liberty, not Christianity. Sometimes I think it's ridiculous how folks behave as if Christianity is gonna disappear suddenly, so they preach and quote gospel and recruit and holler day after day trying to desperately gain support. Enough, already. Spread the virus in private, or in our religious section. Otherwise, get on the damn freedom train and start talking liberty. If talking isn't enough for you and you want to do something, then organize locally and hold your representatives accountable. Stick it to them every chance you get, make them understand you are watching them and you are not alone.

    If we want to take back our country in a non-violent way (and I am not saying we can), we need to first assault the media.

    Next, we will have to also educate others as best as we can. This includes Law Enforcement.

    Finally, we will have to organize and implement solutions, including holding bureaucrats responsible. Chances are, this will eventually turn to violence. But, if you completed the first two steps right, you should be better off for it than we are currently.
  14. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    I remember hearing somewhere, and I'll look for the quote, that only 2% of the colonists fought in and supported the revolutionary war against England. Only one percent of today's population has served in the armed forces. Some people will protect their families and property until the war effects them directly and others will yield to the pressure exerted by the government. Some will side with the government to protect their property and family. It will be no different than any other conflict where there will be those willing to fight and die to throw off tyranny and those who choose to live under the thumb of a tyrant to save their own lives.

    It will be like "The Patriot" with a little "Red Dawn", "The Terminator" and "Braveheart" thrown into the mix.

    couldn't find the quote but found it interesting that loyalists were driven off their land, murdered and lynched following the war. Many fled to Canada, and that explains a number of things. :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  15. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    Well this is ridiculous. If you let the people who control the media (both sides) provoke you into succession they then have an excuse to declare marshal law and tank this country financially and blame it on 'the war'

    Don't fall for this nonsense. It is all being worked out. Jjust don't openly declare war or rebellion and give tptb an excuse to declare Marshall law.

    If you don't understand the the media stories are selectively choosing stories to stir up civil unrest then you need to go do some research on your own.
    Dunerunner likes this.
  16. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    There won't be a choice. If the people will not fight, the .Gov will create the fight. A good case, albeit only minor, would be the biker shooting in Texas recently. With the help of the media, any event can be made into whatever they want. But, I will bet some people will fight, when they have their backs up to the wall. I am betting the economic situation will play a crucial part -when enough folks are hurting financially, they will act. As for "Marshal Law", just as in any major city recently with uprisings over police brutality, it will set a precedence and there will be even more unrest as a result. We already live in a militarized police state -the chess board is set. There's no sense telling people not to resist, because like it or not war is already upon us. It's just a matter of WHEN the people choose to act, and if they decide to work together. I am betting they won't, and we will see more racial tension, more terror "attacks" courtesy of the .Gov, and more IRS jack-boot tactics. Let's also not forget Jade Helm.
  17. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Well said Broker. Not enough people are pissed yet. Christianindependence, the government can call what you are doing right now sedition. Today they can pull you in for no reason and detain you as long as it takes to break you. Every movement has been crushed. Look at the Occupy and tea party movements. Assimilated. As for me and Mine we are waiting for real leader to step up. One who can command as much of the military as the Government can. We need a George Patton or a Doug McCarther or even another Ike. Until I see a leader who can do it Im sitting it out.
    Brokor likes this.
  18. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yes, the military does have some key players who are keeping silent, but some do pass on critical information to alternative media from time to time. We do have many patriots wearing the uniform. This is probably why the recent racial campaign has hit a high note and we see paid Soros idiots starting trouble, government fanboys and professional crisis actors all getting involved. Any chance they get to roll out the police, they will. Every natural disaster, every prison break, nutjob shooter, you name it. The goal is always to wear the people down, get as many as possible criminalized, sickened by cancer and other disease and disarmed. Finally, let the remaining patriotic types kill each other off when they are pushed to the breaking point. The people will be kept divided for as long as possible. No unity, no communication -no chance.
    Yard Dart likes this.
  19. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I see that you were never a "Bonus Marcher", I think the Bonus Army had quite different ideas about Doug, George and Ike than yourself.

    Involving former military commanders (even Corporals) to lead an insurrection is a chancy business...they might just like their position of power so much that they may not surrender it to be shared by a properly constituted democratically elected government. Not every General is a George Washington.

    Not so:

    The Abolitionist movement was vehemently opposed...but succeeded...strongly intact, ensuring that Slavery was abolished in the USA, and that Slaves were emancipated with the enactment of the 13th Amendment to the US constitution.

    Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Women's Suffrage movement campaigned actively against strong opposition, finally achieving voting rights for women in 1920 with the enactment of the 19th Amendment to the US Constitution. The suffragette movement didn't die with the achievement of women's suffrage, it morphed into the feminist movement and continues to take cause against discrimination against women, while promoting of women's issues.

    Women's suffrage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Civil Rights movement fought hard and with determination against racial discrimination...Civil Rights organisations are still fighting hard against all kinds of discrimination.–68)

    The LGBTQI movement has and is fighting a long campaign in favour of marriage equality. They have not suddenly dissolved and abandoned "The Gay Agenda", despite many theists earnest wishes and prayers.

    LGBT movements in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Tea Party movement hasn't been crushed by the powers that be......It is merely on the path towards irrelevance in much the same way that the temperance movement has largely become irrelevant to the body politic.

    Temperance movement in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Yes, the Temperance Movement's greatest achievement was the enactment of the 18th Amendment to the US Constitution, but it left the awful legacy of Prohibition. Know how well Prohibition worked out for the USA?
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2015
  20. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey Site Supporter+++

    Hear this sort of dribble frequently. "Need to heat up some lead on those so n so's".. They would be playing right into their hand's.. "They" have been at this game a LOT longer than the patriotic former grunt's that profess themselves the true patriot, rushing out with gun's blazing.. Patriotic? Without any doubt! I would also clasify them as "Cannon foder".. Has no one read Sun Zu?
    My opinion, We should ignore them! Ignore their laws, their courts, and their politician's. Make them irrelevant!
    If there is no one to assist them in their continued opression and they see their laws are not enforced, they will have to act. Could that be the match that lights the fire?
    As you can gather, I would find it ill advised to directly confront the powers that currently are in charge with force of arm's. It is not that time yet..
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