I've got to quit going to gun shows

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by TLynn, Sep 11, 2005.

  1. TLynn

    TLynn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Pictures will follow in a bit...couldn't find anybody to go to the gun show with me today so I took mom. Ran into somebody who owed me money for almost a year now (well it'd be a year as of 9/25/05). He handed me 5 $20 bills (he's finally gotten back on his feet after going through a divorce losing 2 jobs, etc.). Like I told him the few times I've seen him...it's no biggie. He only owed me $80 but he wanted to make sure I got paid and he's been paying everybody now that he's on his feet. He was going to mail me a check this week but this was even better he said.

    Well mom and I were walking around the gun show and I came across this Colt. In pretty decent shape (really nice), a few scratches for $500. Ah well I'll pay the credit card off by December instead of next month.

    Happy Birthday to me...

    Now anybody know where I can find a manual on the 1991A1? I'm assuming it's close to the 1911A1 but there are a few differences.

    Sigh I should know better than to go to a gun show. :D
  2. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    1991 vs. 1911
    The single biggest change to the 1911 design came about in 1983, when Colt introduced the "MK IV Series 80" pistols. These guns incorporated a new firing pin block safety system, where a series of internal levers and a plunger positively blocked the firing pin from moving until the trigger was pressed, thus eliminating the possibility of the gun discharging if dropped onto a hard surface or struck hard. In this instance however, ALL of Colt's 1911-pattern pistols incorporated the new design change so even the Commander and Officer's ACP pistols became known as Series 80 guns. With the previous paragraph in mind, it is important to know that from 1983 until 1988 the early Government Model and Gold Cup Series 80 pistols used the Series 70-type barrel and bushing as well, although they were known only as Series 80 guns.

    There was one other design change made to the Series 80 guns as well, and that was a re-designed half-cock notch. On all models the notch was changed to a flat shelf instead of a hook, and it is located where half-cock is engaged just as the hammer begins to be pulled back. This way the half-cock notch will still perform its job of arresting the hammer fall should your thumb slip while manually cocking the pistol, yet there is no longer a hook to possibly break and allow the hammer to fall anyway. With the notch now located near the at-rest position, you can pull the trigger on a Series 80 while at half-cock and the hammer WILL fall. However, since it was already near the at-rest position the hammer movement isn't sufficient to impact the firing pin with any amount of force.

    Regarding the "clone" guns (1911-pattern pistols made by manufacturers other than Colt), only Para-Ordinance adopted Colt's Series 80 firing pin block system as well. Kimber's Series II pistols and the new S&W 1911s have a FP safety also, but it is a different system than Colt's and is disabled by depressing the grip safety. No manufacturers aside from Colt ever adopted the Series 70 barrel/bushing arrangement, so technically there are no "Series 70" clone guns. What this means is that design-wise most of them share commonality with the pre-Series 70 guns, using neither the firing pin block NOR the collet bushing. Because of this it is important to remember that only Colt Series 80 models, and a couple of "clone" 1911 makers use a firing pin block. Older Colts and most other clone guns lack a firing pin safety and can possibly discharge if there is a round in the chamber and the gun is dropped on a hard surface, or if struck a blow hard enough to allow the firing pin to jump forward and impact the primer of the loaded round. By the way, Colt has just recently reintroduced new custom pistols lacking the S80 firing pin safety (called the Gunsite models) as well as a reintroduced original-style Series 70 to appeal to purists. Interestingly, the latter uses a solid barrel bushing and Series 80 hammer, so it is somewhat different mechanically than the original Series 70 models.

    Regarding the controversy involving getting a decent trigger pull on a Series 80 gun, it is only of importance if the gunsmith attempts to create a super-light pull (under four pounds) for target or competition use. In defense/carry guns where a four-pound or heavier pull is necessary, the added friction of the Series 80 parts adds little or nothing to the pull weight or feel. A good gunsmith can do an excellent trigger job on a Series 80 and still leave all the safety parts in place, although he will probably charge a little more than if the gun were a Series 70 since there are more parts to work with. But any gunsmith who tells you that you can't get a good trigger on a Series 80 without removing the safety parts is likely either lazy or incompetent.

    For those wondering what the difference is between these pistols, the fact is there really is none. Back in 1991 Colt decided to market an economy version of their basic Series 80 Government Model. The polished blue was changed to an all-matte parkerized (later blue) finish, checkered rubber grip panels were used, and the serial number sequence was made similar to US military M1911A1 pistols. The resulting pistol was cleverly named "M1991A1", after the year of introduction. Mechanically however they are the same as any other Colt Series 80, 1911-type pistol.
  3. TLynn

    TLynn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Quigley, thanks.

    In other words what I have is a bigger plain jane version of the handgun in my avatar (which is a Series 80 Mk IV Colt Commander tricked to the max).

    And what you've got written there is correct - a good gunsmith can get the trigger pull to under 4 lbs on a Series 80. I've got the gun to prove it since mine is set at 2 lbs (scary somedays but it's a sweetheart to shoot).

  4. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    [scroll:ade0595ff1]HAPPY BIRTHDAY TLYNN! I can't think of a better way to celebrate than with a new 1911/91 .45! Woooo Hooo!

    Oh Melbo, you can't stick these in the dishwasher........... [camo]
  5. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    Good looking gun, T. I have one almost identical, I fitted a barrel bushing, tightened the slide, and stippled the frontstrap.
    Here's the frontstrap.
  6. TLynn

    TLynn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    That's cool ghost! How did you do that (the strippling)???

    I have no clue on what the heck you mean about bushings or tightening anything and until I've learned a heck of a lot more I'm not even going to ask about that kind of thing.
  7. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

  8. phishi

    phishi Psy-Ops Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Congrats on your find, looks like a winner. I see in your pic that it comes with an aftermarket sight rail of a make that I'm not familiar with, and just wouldn't trust. I mean look at it, I doubt that its centered, and it appears to bend down as it nears the front of the pistol. Could you give us an idea of the maker so that others will be able to stay away from them in the future?

    Thanks, I'll take my answer off the air.......

  9. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    [ROFL] It also seems to prevent the slide from going into battery.
  10. TLynn

    TLynn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Cute guys, really cute! Just because I hadn't taken the mandatory tie thing off before I shot the picture...

    I'll get you both for that one.

    T out
  11. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    An Idaho gun lock?

    Ghost, I am looking for a gunsmith to work on my G3 and to do some work on my 1911 model 1927 Argentine Colt. Any suggestions? I want a extended beavertail added, and a few other things.
  12. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Spring Break in Daytona Gun Lock? I'm slightly familiar with them
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