jfpo should the jews resited?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Tango3, Jan 28, 2007.

  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    jfpo should the jews have resisted?

    Recent history lesson (Perhaps this wouldbe a goodtime to becomea student of history).

    This is an interesting piece...it discusses some lessons learned from guerilla resitance efforts.focusing the wwII resistance by the jews of the fascist nazi The nazi's kept alot of their atrocities in the camps behind the camp walls,this piece claims smal resistance efforst would have eventualy forced the issue infront of the german public.http://www.jpfo.org/fightback.htm[flag]

    First, we know that the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, when they finally turned to armed resistance, succeeded in holding off the Nazi war machine for nearly a month. These were civilians running an urban guerilla resistance -- using a relatively small number of guns and ammo smuggled in or taken from killed Nazis. In this case, the Warsaw Ghetto defenders damaged the Nazi effort -- and if that had been multiplied over the countryside, it would have meant more damage to the Nazis, and possibly a change in Nazi policy. (See Jon Guttman's article, "Genocide Delayed", in March 2000 issue of World War II magazine, available on line at: http://www.thehistorynet.com/WorldWarII [and on the JPFO web site at http://www.jpfo.org/sentinel2000fall.htm])

    Second, Stephen Halbrook has written a book recently showing that the Nazis did not invade Switzerland in large measure because the Swiss citizens were all armed with military weapons, were trained, and enjoyed a hilly terrain that would benefit the defenders. In this case, the threat of armed resistance deterred the Nazis. (Target Switzerland: Swiss Armed Neutrality in World War II, Sarpedon Publishers, 2000)

    Yes, it is true -- the Nazi propagandists would have enjoyed using the photos of Jewish armed resistance to justify persecution. At first, that is -- but if the resistance continued, then the government would have a public relations problem. That's precisely what most people miss -- the destruction of the Jews and others in the death camps took place behind closed doors, in as much secrecy as the Nazis could enforce. Imagine if the Nazis' killing procedures and death counts were published in their news media -- the Nazis would have suffered a PR disaster that would likely have ended their program.

    If there were a resistance comprised of men, women and children fighting against Nazi storm troopers -- and it were publicized -- then the public knowledge of the Nazi program would have increased. And I think it is fair to say that with more public awareness, the Nazi program would have been shrunk, not expanded.

    I think it is fair to suggest that shooting at Nazis would have brought reprisals. The question we have to ask is whether it is better to submit quietly to the Nazi death machine, or to try to damage it, even if you die in the process. This is an ages-old question -- a judgment call always easier to make after the fact.

    The Founders of the United States, during the American Revolution of 1776, chose in large numbers to fight against the world's most powerful military, the British Army and Navy. The American colonists did not win the victory cleanly -- they lost thousands of lives, and many suffered because of British reprisals -- but the colonists did prevail. They prevailed by force of arms, not by hoping to avoid further bloodshed by surrendering.
    The slaves in San Dom
  2. GaryBrun

    GaryBrun Monkey+++

    The analogy is not 100% accurate. No one was helping the jews and most did nto even know they needed help.

    About our Forefathers

    They prevailed due to the money and munitions that the French Crown provided, and they prevailed due to the French Agitation of other European countries against the British. (Spanish and the Dutch). After Saratoga the Spanish forced the British hand and chocked the reinforcements. French Crown did a suicide on that one and managed to exhaust good will of the Hapsburgs by not supporting them in the War of Bavarian aggression later on. So Hapsburgs did not help when the French Revolution knocked on the doors.

    The end of "Le Roi est mort. Vive le Roi!" era was hastened by helping our forebearers. It was not altruistic in any way. Louis wanted revenge for the humiliation he suffered at the hands of the British. That is another story. Without the French we all would be drinking tea with milk.

    Freedom fries anyone?
  3. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Maybe not 100% analagous, but certainly pertinent.

    That guy in New Hampshire's "fighting the machine". I wonder how that's goin, I'm not seeing any press, but then I don't get out much.
  4. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    How's this for relevant.

    Time it took for Germany to invade and subdue France, with a standing, trained army, and modern weapons.................7 days

    Time it took to subdue the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto, starving, without any training, fighting primarily with improvised weapons................... 1 month
  5. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    John Ross, in Unintended Consequences, describes the point that lies somewhere in between being pulled over for speeding and being led to a pit with a gun to your head.

    that is your resistanse point and soon after that point it becomes to late to resist
  6. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    bravo for the history lesson Gary,
    If their predictament wase more widely known they would have recieved help earlier maybe even from the german populace as stated here.

    Oh yeah, one more thing thing;
    screw the french, their muslim ghetto riots are fueling the islamic takeover of europe...
  7. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Anyone who hasn't read "Unintended Consequences" should do so ASAP. I learned more about the history of gun control, and the erosion of liberties by reading that fictional book than I did from any sources before or since. Plus it is an awesome read!!!
  8. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I would venture to guess that even more impactful than the external help they might have gotten had it been widely known what was going on would have been the fact that most likely if the Jews had known when the Nazis came for them what awaited them, as in what was already takeing place by more than faint rumors, then they them selveswould most likely have represented a MUCH greater resistance since they would have been aware that to die fighting to avoid capture would have been no lose since being captured most likely meant a slow death anyway and there are few things in this world as dangerous as a person who knows they have nothing to loose...unless its aperson who knows they have nothingto loose fighting to save their family from near certian death.
  9. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I need to pick it up somewhere.
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