Just thinking.....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by RightHand, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I've been aware lately of references to "the body" when referring to a deceased person and it led me to wonder at what exact moment a person becomes a body. Is it our Judeo-Christian culture that defines when we stop thinking of someone as a person (when the soul is separated from the flesh and bones,) or is it science that says absent the normal bodily functions that maintain life, the person ceases to exist and becomes merely the body of.....

    Why do we visit the graves of those who have gone before us if all that remains is the receptacle of their flesh if flesh alone is not a person.

    I have no idea what led me down this path of inquiry but once it crossed my mind, the questions seem endless
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  2. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    It's probably because it's easier to deal with 'the body'
    I think we are being programmed to see 'Just bodies' and not people, loved ones, acquaintances and friends.

    I personally think it is to dehumanizing them and used to desensitize (think police, military, coroner, doctors). Imagine if they saw people instead of 'The body'. They'd need to seek counselling.

    Sorry, I've seen my share of dead folk. Nope, they are still people to me. Just that they can hold their breath way longer than I can.
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  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Interesting. I suppose "body of evidence" comes into play here, too. Then, to throw a wrench into the works, there's habeas corpus...


    Strange, that it applies to a living "person". Oh, and that's another interesting legal term --"person".

    Yes, all kinds of oddities with our language and legal vernacular.
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  4. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    I know I think of people not as their physical presence but more as the spirit their body brings into a room. Consider how life of the party type character can raise the laughter in a room, when your friend is down it can bring you down too, and how when your kid has a great accomplishment you are proud. The molecules of blood, bone and gray matter don't do that. Also consider the loved one spiraling down with Alzheimer's reaches a point where the one you previously knew is clearly no longer present even though their body is still alive. It seems the essence of the person is far more than the physical embodiment.

    So when we die what happens to that essence? Does it simply cease to exist? I am personally quite intrigued by current theoretical physics. Einstein was frustrated in his later years by the notion that his equations for relativity worked very well predicting the motions and relationship of large objects but those equations broke down and would not work for atomic and sub-atomic particles. Conversely, the equations for quantum mechanics explained the motions of the particles at the atomic levels but would not work for planets. He and many others felt there has to be a larger system of equations that worked to explain the motions and relationships for everything. Modern theoryists have continued the theoretical explorations which brought us to String Theory and then M Theory. The odd thing with this is for the equations to work for sub-atomic particles as well as the motions of the planets, there need to be 11 dimensions to the universe. Hmmm...

    So it's all just theory. But Eistein's E=mC^2 was just theory and still is. However it was derived mathematically and logically, the same as String and M theory and we know his "theory" was good enough to destroy two Japanese cities, power a whole bunch more as well as lots of submarines and aircraft carriers. So, interestingly to me is the notion that heaven or the life thereafter or a continued existence of our essence could possibly lay in these other predicted dimension. The intersection of theology and physics offers some very interesting avenues and potential answers. Of course YMMV and I expect some vigorous contrary opinions which I actually value as critical exploration was essential for getting us to the present.

    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
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  5. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Gin a body be a body when a comin' thro' the rye... (when alive)

    That body remains a body, even though it (eventually may) die.

    Comin' Thro' the Rye - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  6. bagpiper

    bagpiper Heretic

    You might be interested in the thread about our Origins and Lies.
    You refer to the Unified Field.
    No, the Universe only has 3 dimensions, the rest are mathematical constructs that are clumsy because of the way our math works...
    You have laid down the essential truth of the Universe... whether you know it or not. This is the idea I tried to get across in the other thread. People don't accept that math can prove that God created, and exists, simply because they have been brain washed by two thousand years of what I term; The Mystery Doctrine. Which is; All things are magic of God, and how dare you try to define it. The Dark ages were a direct result of the Church outlawing philosophy and reasoned thinking. Still, to this day, anyone who attempts this kind of 'metaphysics', is called names... I have been called names, thankfully, not here in this place. (This forum is the best of the best IMHO, simply because of the civility enforced.

    To your post, and the question about The Body.
    Hypocrites(sp), (the father of modern medicine, not hypocrite... ;) ), defined a body, a human being, as having a heartbeat. This was the defining moment when the spirit was attached to the 'soul', and life began... thus, the definition of the dead body is exactly the opposite. This is when the 'animating spirit', is disconnected... this ties into the Unified Field of God in this way; The Spirit is defined as energy, hyperenergy, energy that is beyond biological perception. The question then becomes, something that science cannot answer; What IS energy? Science would say, the purest form of energy is; Light. Ok.

    In this regard, you are absolutely on target with Einstein, my hero. Who said that all things, ALL things, are composed of ENERGY. That is what the e=mc2 equation means... matter is composed of energy. But also a 'something else'. Quantum physics, now recognizes something called; 'Dark' energy. As the binding force of energy, that causes matter to be hard. BUT, they cannot tell you exactly WHAT, WHY, or HOW this Dark energy works. That is the crux of the search for; The God particle.

    In this regard, my Unified Field of God theory, has been rejected by all major journals(Physics, Nature, Science), because as one editor told me; "Even if the theory is right, I can't print it because of all that 'God Stuff'"...

    Well, no one seems to understand, that dark energy has been known about for thousands of years, only, it wasn't called dark energy... it was called; The Force of Darkness... this knowledge is what the Catholic church burned, when they burned down the Library of Alexandria, 10,000 years of accumulated knowledge went up in smoke, because it was called a; Pagan Temple.

    So, don't think of it as 'God', because, really, it isn't... its; Intelligent Designer. Which is far higher than any 'God'(s), who are children of the Creator. But, the source of our difficulty in science and religion is resolved by the knowledge of what 'dark' energy IS, because it also defines what energy IS. A scientist will tell you how energy works, how to manipulate it, how to measure it, but, cannot provide an adequate explanation for what energy IS, and thus, how the Universe WORKS. This knowledge was 'revealed' to us thousands of years ago, but, modern 'scholars', simply laugh. What is this knowledge? The Unified Field of God, as given to Enoch the Scribe(yes, THAT Enoch of the Bible, who was taken up). Now before you laugh...

    Consider, energy, in order to do work, must FLOW... Correct? This is also true for human bodies, and, rocks. Remember, e=mc2, or the Special Relativity theory, proved(via Atom bombs), that all matter is composed of 'energy' and 'something else'. The atom bomb, when exploded, released the LIGHT of a thousand suns AND, something else called radiation or high energy 'particles', which implied, that the 'rock' of uranium, was composed of light and that 'other thing'. In our case, that other thing is the Nexus between Science and Religion. (It also nullifies MOST of what man's religions have to say about creation.) Remember also, that science and religion(theology in this case), have a common definition; The understanding of man, his place in the Universe, and how it all works... This is where Enoch, and the Unified Field of God, become a Key to 'divine' understanding. Here is also, where my christian brothers go crazy and accuse me of being deceived by Satan, and I teach heresy, witchcraft, sorcery, yada yada. (Sigh.) They have no idea, how much was destroyed, by their church, when the Church was establishing itself as the Big Dog, but I digress. (I have no animosity towards the church, don't take it personally, its just 'ancient history', ok?)

    Now, here is the connection. Science knows that all things are composed of two forces, light and something else, but they turn away from Einstein and the Unified Field, towards a God particle of their standard model, but, it just doesn't work, and never will. Even some of them have now acknowledged, that the God particle is a sham, a ghost, a mathematical chimera. Their problem is, they know a constant flow of energy is required for everything to work, but, every attempt at seeking The Source of the Energy, leads them to Hyperspace, and, the Throne of the Creator... but, but, but... they can't 'go there'. So, they have made up their own God, in a particle. Stephen Hawking, has as much as admitted it.

    So where are we then? Did science make some bad assumptions? Did religion shoot themselves in the foot when they destroyed ten thousand years of knowledge, considering, that The Common Man has now evolved in knowledge, and rejects superstitions, fairy tales, and irrational doctrines that are just unfair and destructive to mankind? For forty years I have followed a path laid down before I was born. I was drawn to pick up golden nuggets of knowledge from the detritus and discards of so called scholars and experts. Then, one day, I had a spiritual event happen. I literally saw The Light. Long story short, I saw it all, how it works, and it is all based on the ancient metaphors of Light and Darkness, but, I was shown that the secret lies in; The Force of Darkness.

    Consider, as I said above, science cannot tell you exactly what energy is, but, they can't tell you what a gravity field IS, or even, a magnetic field... they cannot tell you how inertia works, or why entropy is necessary for all things to function. They cannot describe why a photon, a 'particle' of light, can transform itself into a wave, depending on whether it is being observed or not, they cannot say why, exactly, two particles can be joined, or entangled, at a distance. They cannot say why, most things(micro to macro) seem to spin, rotate, and orbit counter clockwise... which implies, a common source of spin 'energy'. So for all these reasons and more, the 'random' God particle, is bogus.
    When they said they had 'proved it 99%', but 'had a lot more work to do', many saw through their BS, they simply combined results from many different experiments and mathematically massaged the data for the result they wanted... for one purpose... Europe, and thus CERN, was broke, and they needed some results from all these billions spent, NOW. But more importantly, some experts in the field, pretty much gave up on it because the God particle, could not deliver a Unification of Forces...weak, strong, gravity, inertia, magnetism, entropy. Of these, in my theory, The Key force, is magnetism. They will never find a magnetic monopole, because it can't exist. (But, I see this post is getting long in the tooth, so we'll drop that here, and simply say, Einstein's general relativity had a necessary foundation; The Imponderable Aether. I have found it, and proved it, to myself at least... ;) .)

    I contend, that only the God calculus, has delivered the Theory of Everything, or The Unified Field of God. And this required going back to the 19th and early 20th century to find any mistakes(Michelson-Morley and Stern-Gerlach), which provided the discovery of what magnetism IS, which shows what dark energy IS, which shows the shape of the quantum, which delivered what reality IS, which led to a 'forbidden' subject, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which shows, how DNA is impressed upon the dark energy, and thus, what a human being is. And that knowledge requires writing a book, IOW rewriting the bible, and science, as One. (And here, is where the brothers threaten to kill me... really...(again, sigh)

    The short form, for you, is that a human body is only one part of three. A human life is composed of three parts. HyperEnergy, interface, and Darkness. Or, light, soul, and matter. The human is connected to the Source, the Holy Spirit, which animates. The Soul is the interface to matter, composed of spiritually evolved chaos or complexity from the animal kingdom. Matter, or 'hardness', is composed of mostly magnetic repulsion in chaotic interactions.

    Having been around dying people, in particular, my mother. I had the unfortunate responsibility, of giving the order to 'turn it off', when she was in ICU, and had been placed on life support. As long as she breathed, 'the body' laying there, LOOKED like her, even in her emaciated condition... as soon as they turned off the machines, and I looked back at her, it was strange. First I had the overwhelming feeling of her running around the room in JOY, and embracing me, but, that thing lying on the bed, no longer looked like her... It was subtle, it was part psychological on my part, I was sure... but now, I'm not so sure. Because, a few months later, she came to visit me. I know what my dreams are like, and this was not that, I could even swear, it was me that was THERE, and not her that was HERE. But, when it was over, I had the overwhelming feeling of falling, and then sat up in bed...

    I leave you with that. If you want to discuss this, I'll watch this thread.
    Good night.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
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  7. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    That is an interesting question. Why do we visit graves? I went and visited my Grandma a few months back. She has been gone for almost 20 years but I felt a need to go "see" her. I went to her final resting place. Saw that her grave was nicely tended to, her flowers blooming etc... I spoke what I wanted to say, though I could have done it anywhere, it felt better saying it where she was.

    I agree with @VisuTrac,the term body is used by professionals or others who are not attached to the person. I have never heard someone refer to their loved one as the body. I do think it is more then a body. Why? Because I know that animals are more intuitive then humans thus when you read stories like these you wonder what we as humans are missing.

    Loyal Dog, Capitán, Sits By Owner's Grave For Six Years (PHOTOS)

    Read more: Navy SEAL Jon Tumilson's dog sits by coffin during funeral | Mail Online

    Dog Stays by Dead Owner's Side for 23 Days

    Loyal Dog Refuses to Leave His Dead Owner’s Side Despite Scorching-Hot Temperatures | Video | TheBlaze.com

    @bagpiper I liked the story of your Mom at the end. I do believe we, if aware enough can visit or be visited by those who have left us.
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