Just When You Thought It Was Safe To Go Back Into THe Water

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Seacowboys, Jun 15, 2010.


  1. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Oil Volcano Pressure Too
    Strong For Containment
    Dr. James P. Wickstrom
    6-9-10
    <table class="ecxecxMsoNormalTable" style="width: 416.25pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="555"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="padding: 0in; width: 100%;" valign="top" width="100%"> It has been estimated by experts that the pressure which blows the oil into the Gulf waters is estimated to be between 20,000 and 70,000 PSI (pounds per square inch). Impossible to control.
    What US Scientists Are Forbidden To Tell The Public About The Gulf
    What you are about to read, is what the scientists in the United States are not allowed to tell you in great fear of the Obama administration.
    They are under the threat of severe repercussions to the max.. Scientists confirming these findings cannot be named due to the above, but what they believe, they want to be known by all.
    Take a U. S. map, lay it flat and measure inland just the minimum 50 miles of total destruction all around the Gulf of Mexico as to what you will read below.
    The carnage to the United States is so staggering, it will take your breathe away.
    Should what the scientists who are trying to warn everyone about be even close to being true... all of Florida will be completely destroyed as will everyone and everything on it.
    You decide!! Everyone has the right to read what I have just written in this article, as well as to what is written below by the scientists who the Obama administration and BP are trying to shut up.
    Please share with as many as you can.
    --Dr. James P. Wickstrom
    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/05/05/learning/oilslickLN/oilslickLN-blogSpan.jpg
    SUMMARY OF WHAT IS HAPPENING
    The estimated super high pressure release of oil from under the earth's crust is between 80,000 to 100,000 barrels per day.
    The flow of oil and toxic gases is bringing up with it... rocks and sand which causes the flow to create a sandblasting effect on the remaining well head device currently somewhat restricting the flow, as well as the drilled hole itself.
    As the well head becomes worn it enlarges the passageway allowing an ever-increasing flow. Even if some device could be placed onto the existing wellhead, it would not be able to shut off the flow, because what remains of the existing wellhead would not be able to contain the pressure.
    The well head piping is originally about 2 inches thick. It is now likely to be less than 1 inch thick, and thinning by each passing moment. The oil has now reached the Gulf Stream and is entering the Oceanic current which is at least four times stronger than the current in the Gulf, which will carry it throughout the world within 18 months.
    The oil along with the gasses, including benzene and many other toxins, is deleting the oxygen in the water. This is killing all life in the ocean. Along with the oil along the shores, there will be many dead fish, etc. that will have to be gathered and disposed of.
    SUMMARY OF EXPECTATIONS
    At some point the drilled hole in the earth will enlarge itself beneath the wellhead to weaken the area the wellhead rests upon. The intense pressure will then push the wellhead off the hole allowing a direct unrestricted flow of oil, etc.
    The hole will continue to increase in size allowing more and more oil to rise into the Gulf. After several billion barrels of oil have been released, the pressure within the massive cavity five miles beneath the ocean floor will begin to normalize.
    This will allow the water, under the intense pressure at 1 mile deep, to be forced into the hole and the cavity where the oil was. The temperature at that depth is near 400 degrees, possibly more.
    The water will be vaporized and turned into steam, creating an enormous amount of force, lifting the Gulf floor. It is difficult to know how much water will go down to the core and therefore, its not possible to fully calculate the rise of the floor.
    The tsunami wave this will create will be anywhere from 20 to 80 feet high, possibly more. Then the floor will fall into the now vacant chamber. This is how nature will seal the hole.
    Depending on the height of the tsunami, the ocean debris, oil, and existing structures that will be washed away on shore and inland, will leave the area from 50 to 200 miles inland devoid of life. Even if the debris is cleaned up, the contaminants that will be in the ground and water supply will prohibit re-population of these areas for an unknown number of years.
    (End of scientists information release.) From Tom Buyea FL News Service
    Comment
    Joseph Fasciani
    6-9-10
    Jeff - As I wrote in the PS and Comment to another article, HS physics tells us that a liquid cannot be compressed. Period.
    Perhaps this statement you posted, Oil Volcano Pressure Too Strong For Containment, will help the wake-up call.
    As he points out:
    The hole will continue to increase in size allowing more and more oil to rise into the Gulf. After several billion barrels of oil have been released, the pressure within the massive cavity five miles beneath the ocean floor will begin to normalize.
    If HS sheeple had elementary physics, chemistry, biology, botany, and zoology BEFORE leaving HS, the MSM could not hood wink so many so often. -Joseph
    Comment
    Robert Morningstar
    FYI...Jeff Rense is right...
    Robert M*
    To: Ted O.
    Subject: update on the oil spill
    Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 16:30:22 -0500
    Hi, Ted:
    You probably will not be surprised to learn that the situation is much worse than the mainstream media are reporting. We have a geyser of lies from BP and the WH.
    Some friends have kept track of the situation. One is a retired troubleshooter for big oil and another is a very bright physicist who is working with other scientists to develop some strategies for coping with the spill.
    It now appears that degradation of the sea floor and well casing may soon allow the pressure of the effluent to spit out whatever is still blocking the flow (probably pieces of the casing) and push the blowout preventer aside. If that happens there will be a dramatic increase in the flow.
    BP has quietly advanced the completion date for a relief well to Christmas. It is not clear that a relief well will actually be able to stop the spill. The relief well has to intercept the bore of the wild well at a place where the casing has integrity, and no one knows whether that place might be or even if it exists.
    By August enough oil may have been released to pose a serious threat to life in the Atlantic Ocean. There is no way to keep it out of deep currents that will carry it everywhere.
    Today someone posted a disturbing forecast on rense.com.
    http://rense.com/general91/oilor.htm
    I sent it to the physicist, hoping he would say it was exaggeraged. He replied:
    "I read Rense.com also.
    "I already sent the article out to our "group" for their opinion. Two of the best geologists and oil-well experts in the country are in our little klatsch. It was their opinion that no BOP in existence would have contained the overpressure. From day one I was arguing that the pipes were being eroded. I think the quoted pressures are off by a factor of 10, but even 7000 psi is nothing to sneeze at. Remember my worry of "fracking" and steam formation? Now people can get it from both ends of the horse. Yes I believe the website is quite credible.
    "Let me scare you even more. Fracking can proceed to where many of the so-called oil wells are joined, since there is only one really big deposit underlying the entire GoM shelf. Yep, all the way to your neck of the woods. All the platforms are really sucking teats from a single sow. A chain reaction is possible, eroding all the walls, going down to as far as Venezuela as a worst-case scenario. And remember, that South American deposit extends all the way, nearly to the Antarctic. The Falklands war was over possession of the oil. Estimates of several trillion barrels of oil can be let loose.
    "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?
    ---end quote--
    I don't know about the tsunami. I don't see how anyone can predict that with precision. However I think the discharge of that hydrocarbon reservoir will result in geological changes including subsidence of fairly large areas that are currently dry land.
    Considering the possiblity that mass evacuations may be required, it is probably not a coincidence that Northcomm is gearing up for military action inside the United States.
    The federal attention is all on Florida right now. Bobby Jindal and his citizens are being left to twist in the wind. Serves them right for being Republicans. <-- WH attitude.
    That could be to your benefit, since we all know that when the feds take control chaos follows.
    The oil contains volatiles that are toxic and carcinogenic. If you can smell heavy oil you are undoubtedly breathing much more than the EPA safe limits of these gases. Workers are trying to clean up this material wearing boots and gloves. They should be in protective clothing with respirators. BP is lying about the toxicity of the oil along with everything else.
    This isn't good news, but I thought you should know.
    Maybe NO is in less danger than Florida. The feds seem to think so.
    Love,
    Shelley
    </td></tr></tbody></table>​

     
  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Well that sorta took all the steam out of my morning. Time for more rum [boozingbuddies]
     
  3. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Here's a response from Scott, a Consultant with Fairwinds International. I asked his opinion about this.
    "
    Thanks for the article. I like to read everything I can get my hands on.

    If the first comment were true though, I am afraid well control would never be possible for any well drilled (but it is).

    They have some completions now (McMoRan is drilling) that require 20,000 psig equipment in addition to the High Temps.

    I believe Dr. Wickstrom’s estimates of volume are inaccurate and very high.

    We’ll know exactly how much in July (if the integrity of the well completion lasts that long) – I estimate it is flowing at a rate of 20,000 bbls to 40,000 bbls per day.

    I doubt that there is very much sand being brought up to compound erosion, and I understand that this reservoir was around the 100 MMBO size which is about one day of the world demand for oil. That is more frightening than the leak.

    Very interesting sets of articles though – thanks. I hope you have been doing well.

    I never got to tell you I thought you did a great job on the barge salvage."
     
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Ya know, this boob is postulating that all the oil reservoirs in the world are tied together somehow. Not bloody likely, or all the oil field geologists in the world are in cahoots to hide the fact, thus creating work for drillers.

    One could just as easily postulate that all the magma reservoirs that breed volcanoes are similarly connected and would result in the pacific ocean filling up with volcanic ejecta and poor old Bear would have to seek the Himalayas to get above it. The scientists that "cannot be named" are probably micro biologists (or something equally off geology) and don't want to be named because they are way out of their field.

    And so the water gets down into the strata. Fasciani missed his own physics class, the water can heat up, but doing so does NOT increase the pressure one tiny bit. At the worst, it would vent up thru the hole he says will form, thus the sea floor will not heave nor create a tsunami. (On the other hand, if the hole were plugged, the reaction would be self limiting. Sounds pretty good to me, a plug is what we want.) So far as rocks and sand coming up, where's the evidence? Those do not show in any of the vids; are we now to believe BP has set up a counterfeit site for them? (About like the set showing man hasn't reached the moon?)

    Wickstrom holds a D. Litt. (Doctor of Letters, literally. Some quals, eh?)

    James Wickstrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Dr. James P. Wickstrom, D. Litt.
    Raving maniac.

    I want some of the drugs Wickstrom is taking to separate himself from reality. Those other twits are snorting the same stuff, whatever it is. Anyway, he is part right about HS education, where he nails up his scrotum is when he says that will impart enough science to let them see his light. Bet it would go the other way, and do him out of a job disseminating rubbish.

    Probably a flamer, too.
     
  5. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Usmcwife will be relieved to hear:
    "So total destruction in the gulf states is... er... uhmm a "bogus" claim?"
     
  6. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I am watching my home be destroyed. I was here after Katrina and this is much worse than that because it will take years, if ever, to recover and there is no end in sight. I don't need conspiracy theories when I see oil in the grass, dead oily birds, turtles, dolphins.
    First hurricane to bounce of the Yucatan and head this way will paint the entire West coast of Florida. Everybody in Florida relies on tourism, every fisherman, bait shop, restaurant, gas station, we are so screwed around here.
     
  7. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Here are excerpts from a conversation on Linked-in:
    Captain Darrell Wallace If they can fly that big shear down and cut that riser, why didn't they put crimper-jaws on it and send it down on day 1 to kill the leak? BP needs to change names to BS!


    Eric Geib Because they are not trying to "stop" the leak. They are trying to recover whatever oil and profit they can from the leak while allowing the worst environmental disaster in US history to continue. If they wanted to stop it altogether, the concept of a siphon tube would never have been the design. If a BOP valve can contain the pressure, then they could have cut the riser tube and inserted a slightly tapered plug into the riser tube on top of the the BOP. A plug with enough weight and pad eyes with chains leading out to suction piles would have stopped the leak completely. But like I said, they are trying to recover oil from the well.
    Scott Smith <q> They were afraid that if they put a valve on top and closed it (or another BOP) that the well would have "blown out" underneath and there would be zero oil recovery. They abandoned the "hot stab" of an additional BOP after the Top Kill effort (they felt the remaining completion could not withstand the pressure of the well and it would blow out underneath the BOP = Very Bad).</q>
    Eric Geib <q> Essentially, what your saying then, is that they drilled a well and installed a BOP that may never have been able to withstand the pressure. Unless I am mistaken, a BOP is a device that can be closed entirely to prevent a "blow out", thus able to sustain the pressure of said well. This goes back to 2 things, either they do not want to stop it completely in order to keep some revenue coming fro the find, or they are so incompetent that they installed a BOP that would never have worked in the first place (if they are afraid of too much pressure). </q>
    Scott Smith <q> They would love to have the oil stopped - I think making money off of it is only a byproduct of not being able to stop it. I am saying that they were discussing a hot stab (another BOP) but quit after the top kill. This leads me to believe that the integrity of the well design has been compromised and Yes, if they put the full wellbore pressure against the compromised completion it would blow out below the BOP (underground) and we sure enough would have a mess - zero capability to recover. Aside from the (great probability they think they will have a blowout) there is no reason that they could not remove the flange on top of the BOP, hot stab a valve and close it.
    </q>Captain Darrell Wallace Scott, I am going to email you something I got from a friend in Dubai this morning and get your take on it.
     
  8. USMCwife

    USMCwife Monkey++

    Thanks Tango--I'm totally relieved, but not really. I'm not sure what I can take from the article above. It does sound like "doom and gloom on crack." I am more personally concerned about dangerous gases than anything else, because I'm preggers. But, I sure would hate to be a gulf shore owner about now. Sorry about your property, seacowboy.

    I just have to hold out 'till the end of this year. The military will move us again by then. I know BP, msm, and the gov are holding out on us. I'm just not sure to what extent. Sea, keep posting updates. Thanks.
     
  9. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Had a thought today(!) completing my errands.the op talks about water getting in the well/reserve and turning to steam.blowing the seafloor
    Sounds reasonable right?
    Well think of the deep sea "smokers " venting in the Pacific and Atlantic ridges water is heated to 700 + degrees by magma and
    exits as hot water because of the pressure.at that depth. WHAT IS THE BOILING POINT AT the pressure( -5000FEET+ DEPTH OF THE WELL)????.
    I now call b.s. on that scenario.
     
  10. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Hey Sea:

    If the bop was sized correctly; why couldn't they just provide freshly charged hydraulic accumulators to the existing bop hydraulics; apply the accumulator pressure and force the the Bop closed ,as designed..???
    I imagine reconnecting hydraulic lines with a robot gripper is tougher than just using a wrench to remove them.
     
  11. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Sorry Sea: guess I was talking about the conspiracy "earth changes " stuff we are hearing...
    I know the gulf coast is horribly damaged. :(
     
  12. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member



    That's how I feel too , Sea...I have friends that are Shrimpers, Long liners, 2nd & 3rd generation oyster fishers over in Apalachicola...Friends that run tourist boats out to Shell Island here, and in Tampa...Deep Sea Fishing boat Captains..little hole in the wall seafood restaurant owners..(the best kind btw!).....and I've seen dead birds, and dolphins....part of the oil rig washed up here!
    We're screwed. For a long long time... :(
     
  13. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    At 5000 feet of water, you do indeed look at around 650 (more or less, I didn't do a precise calc) deg F to boil water (add some for the salt.) Dunno what the black smokers depth is, but I am not so sure the smokers are steamers. I think the smoke comes from within the earth, not water sinking down and coming back up.

    I just can't see water getting to the bottom of the well at 18K, so didn't bother with running the numbers. Temp is linear with depth, but boiling is not; you have to go to some exotic tables to find that number, and I suspect it would be above the critical temp for water (meaning water and steam are physically indistinguishable and won't separate to lift the sea floor.) If anyone really gives a rat's sphincter for the numbers, I'll find them.
     
  14. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Please do tell. I couldn't find a boiling point/pressure graph beyond 1000 psi. At the given depth of 18K ft. the pressure is 545.45 atmospheres or 8,018 psi.
     
  15. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Seems to me it would get hot but not flash to a "gaseous state" ( steam) as we are familiar with at 1atm. No expanding volume to displace anything.
    erosion of the well casing and blowing the bop off to leave an open hole can't be good though .
     
  16. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Holycrap check this out:

    Physical properties

    Hydrothermal vents in the deep ocean typically form along the Mid-ocean ridges, such as the East Pacific Rise and the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. These are locations where two tectonic plates are diverging and new crust is being formed.
    The water that issues from seafloor hydrothermal vents consists mostly of sea water drawn into the hydrothermal system close to the volcanic edifice through faults and porous sediments or volcanic strata, plus some magmatic water released by the upwelling magma.
    In terrestrial hydrothermal systems the majority of water circulated within the fumarole and geyser systems is meteoric water plus ground water that has percolated down into the thermal system from the surface, but it also commonly contains some portion of metamorphic waters, sedimentary formational brines and magmatic water that is released by the magma. The proportion varies from location to location.
    The water emerges from a hydrothermal vent at temperatures ranging up to 300°C, compared to a typical 2°C for the surrounding deep ocean water. The high pressure at these depths significantly expands the thermal range at which water remains liquid, and so the water doesn't boil. Water at a depth of 3,000 m and a temperature of 407°C becomes supercritical.<sup id="cite_ref-4" class="reference">[5]</sup> However the increase in salinity pushes the water closer to its critical point.
    Some hydrothermal vents form roughly cylindrical chimney structures. These form from minerals that are dissolv


    Hydrothermal vent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "super critical":

    Supercritical fluid

    <!-- /firstHeading --> <!-- bodyContent --> <!-- tagline --> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    <!-- /tagline --> <!-- subtitle --> <!-- /subtitle --> <!-- jumpto --> Jump to: navigation, search
    <!-- /jumpto --> <!-- bodytext --> A supercritical fluid is any substance at a temperature and pressure above its critical point. It can effusesolids like a gas, and dissolve materials like a liquid. In addition, close to the critical point, small changes in pressure or temperature result in large changes in density, allowing many properties of a supercritical fluid to be "fine-tuned". Supercritical fluids are suitable as a substitute for organic solvents in a range of industrial and laboratory processes. Carbon dioxide and water are the most commonly used supercritical fluids, being used for decaffeination and power generation, respectively. through
     
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    OK, then.
    Assumptions:
    Sea water is 64 lbs per cu ft
    Rock is (assume granite, admittedly not accurate) 150 lbs per cu ft.
    The total depth of the well is 18K ft from the sea surface.

    Then it is easily found that static water pressure at the bottom of the hole is 8000 psi. (Matches your number close enough.)

    Then we have 5000 ft of water, plus 13000 feet of rock, so the pressure in the formation MIGHT be 2222 + 13,540 or say 16,000 psi. That again is the STATIC pressure, and assumes the rock is rigid, a poor assumption over distance.

    You can see that balancing the pressure in the formation needs drilling mud of about twice the density of sea water, plus a bit for safety to prevent things from moving around. Kicks happen when the balance is just a tiny bit biased the wrong way and gas bubbles form and truck on up the drill pipe, expanding as they go. The bigger they get, the more energy is getting released, and when they hit the air at the top of the pipe, things happen. All this is assuming temperature is irrelevant, which it ain't when you start thinking steam.

    Looking now at water vs. temp: At 3206 (and above) psig, steam and water are indistinguishable based on physical properties. For steam to be present, even if you can't tell the difference, the temp has to be about 705 deg F (or above) if we are dealing with pure water, which we ain't, so add some degrees for the salt. Above that temp, you are dealing with what is called a supercritical fluid (the region in which steam and water are physically indistinguishable.) Less than 705 (+), you have hot water, more than 705(+) you get steam, but it still looks like water until the pressure is dropped, then you get a bubble. I wasn't able to find any data on how hot the formation is, but if it's over 705 (+) then one could guess that steam bubbles would come up the well with similar energy release at the surface if they didn't cool off on the way up. Betcha they would cool, given the distance they would have to travel, and all you get at the surface is warm water. That is strictly conjecture on my part for now, but I think you can safely assume that steam will not be an issue at the surface.

    Sea floor "smokers" are maybe interesting to some. Hot water (or indistinguishable steam) comes out and immediately hits water at (say) 33 deg F. and starts cooling right off. If any steam bubbles form, they are almost instantly cooled and collapsed, making warm water, nothing else except interesting (to biologists) marine life.

    All that is worth what you paid for it.
     
  18. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    CC: Google "Mollier Diagram" and steam properties. The pressure and temps for water/steam properties are given there.
     
  19. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    interesting you mentioned "kicks"; Some of the conspiracy threads I've read mention the well "kicking" hours before the explosion., and siesmic teams( or "cement people") getting off the rig double quick leaving warnings of impending doom.( and the recommendation of tripping the bop).

    However, there is an extremely disturbing rumour that suggests a rather different series of events!

    The SLB Wireline personnel were called to the rig specifically to run the CBL test. However, they discovered that the well was still 'kicking; something that should definitely not be occurring at this stage of the proceedings and a pretty good indicator that there was a serious problem with the well-completion process. As a result of this, the SLB Wireline Engineer supposedly advised the Company Man that the well needed to be 'Shut in', either by pumping a heavier density mud (drilling fluid) or activating the BOP (Blow Out Preventer). The word on the vine is that the BP Company Man rejected this advice and the SLB Engineers immediately demanded to be evacuated from the rig. There being no scheduled helicopter, SLB management apparently responded to their Engineers request for immediate evacuation by flying out a charter 'copter. It is agreed by all parties that the SLB Engineers left the rig at 11.00am. The rig exploded six hours later. If there is any substance to these allegations, the BP Company Man has a lot to answer for ... including the lives of 11 oilfield hands. The truth is unlikely to be established outside a Court Room as the incestuous oil industry closes ranks.

    take with as much salt as required ( I won't vouch for the veracity of the source):
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread583722/pg1
     
  20. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    My own pesonal opinion, worth as much as anybody's at this point, I have ZERO experience in oil industry and drilling......

    We can dispense with the author's imaginative description of the entire gulf floor collapsing, and the sea gushing into the deep fissure to react with the core magma and basically steam-cook the entire Gulf and Atlantic region. Ain't gonna happen. This feller should use his Dr. Litt. degree to write for Hollywood, NOT the internet 'news'......

    Notwithstanding that drama, we residents along the Gulf Coast are indeed screwed, royally.......
    The bad legislation in the last twenty years, driven by the rabid Econazis running the last several administrations, combined with a few bad hurricanse, have all but put an end to our seafood industry. I have family that have fished here for a century or more - now out of work, or the younger ones getting re-educated and moving away. Boats out of the water, rotting, nets rotting, fish and crab houses slowly decaying.
    We pay ever higher prices for asian 'seafood' of dubious origins and species......
    The housing industry's woes make our property values plummet - can't sell our homes and move. Now, how many Yankees will come down to buy summer homes and pump their dollars into our economy? The oil has them all spooked. 'Da Mouse' might tempt a few to fly down - but even they may hit dangerously hard tmes.

    Hard times, my friends.......
    If I was a few more years along, I'd retire now and skip up to North Georgia...... :rolleyes:
     
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