Kids Turning Into Debt Zombies

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Yard Dart, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    I thought this was a good opinion piece. A subject not being talked about to loudly that has deep ramifications to our kids and the nation.

    Team Obama's plan to turn your kids into debt zombies | Fox News
  2. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Access to higher education is controlled by two things, ability and money. We see gradeflation from preschool to college these days, and wind up with unqualified graduates at every level, thus ability is removed from the balance.

    In the good old days, the gentleman's C was awarded to those who's way was paid handsomely by others, but the unqualified grads were way fewer, and the marketplace put them where they fit. These days, we wind up with a slew of PhDs that can't read, and a few real scholars that can contribute commensurate with their ability, not the money they bring in, since the money comes from dot gov regardless. So, I ask again, how many PhDs per year does it take to load Waste Management trucks? Let the market sort it out.

    I don't care what DOEd says, not everyone is entitled to have a degree. Unless, of course, they can earn it and make proper use of it. Those that haven't the resources of their own will find a way, and those that do earn a real sheepskin are apt to be missed in the flock of unqualified. There is the travesty.

    Off rant.

    There is a trend I see that is appealing. Tech schools are cropping up with highly focused certificate programs. Welding, carpentry, health care admin and the like. There's one local that is issuing certificates for massage therapy, just as an example of how focused things can be. All these things can be used as jumping off points for higher education leading to "real" professions as opposed to the more mundane dead end occupations, no matter how high the compensation becomes. All it takes is the will to start on a road that zero wants everyone to jump over.
  4. Gunny Highway

    Gunny Highway Hard Work and Sacrifice blessed by God's Grace

    I am a poster child for ( the formerly fantastic ) California's Community College Program. Multiple degrees in a variety of subjects from multiple institutions. When I started in was a flat $ 50 tuition for as many units as one could take in a semester and in my case there are 3 community colleges in same district. I worked at least 1 job full time the entire time and most of the time had a part time job in addition to that. Sleep always came last. My grades reflect my inability to put the amount of study I needed into each and every course but I finished some semesters with 24 units completed. 1 only had one semester in a 15 year period where I earned 0 units and it was due to having to watch my son as a baby while his mother attended school. She dropped out 5 weeks later and I had to eat the semester as non-productive academia-wise.

    This type of opportunity has been taken away for the most part ( at least from your average person ) as tuition rates climb and climb, but truthfully it is how bad do you want it ?

    I see the encroaching specter of socialism turning the hearts and minds of what I consider a near totally unmotivated generation. Spoon fed how special each and every one of them are from childhood, true achievement is a concept they know nothing of, and hardship for them until recent years has been non-existent. Understand that I speak in generalities but if I am wrong one time out of 20 that is still a 95 % and an A if I remember correctly. People call it stereotyping or bias - I call it life experience.

    There are those people who work for a living and those who vote for a living and those who vote are winning as they have convinced young people that its ok to not work as hard as they can to improve your life as the government will help you out. This naturally filters down to the lowest common denominator of effort to the majority and since they don't have to fund the cost of child after child they breed and breed. As my good friend states, Taxes are used to discourage and subsidies to encourage - so the government rewards dependence and discourages self-reliance and achievement from your average citizen.

    Sacrifice is necessary for achievement and betterment of one's situation. OK - rant done
    STANGF150 and Mountainman like this.
  5. Gunny Highway

    Gunny Highway Hard Work and Sacrifice blessed by God's Grace

    America's tradesman are the backbone of this country and if one wants to be successful then they should learn a trade or earn a degree that leads to a license. Just my .02 on that subject Ghrit. Couldn't agree with you more - not everyone is " college " material ( especially with dumbing down of our public education ). Like you said at the end of the post - all it takes is the will to start and keep going down that road. As I say to my employees and my son/nephews and their friends ( if they are unlucky enough to be stuck listening to me ) The world is full of " wannabees" - be a " gonnabee " instead.
  6. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Yup, we need the trades, and kudos to them that do their jobs well and like doing it. We have a couple folks here that are good at what they do, are happy with what they are doing and supporting families to boot. My hat is off to the successful non-whiners.
    Gunny Highway likes this.
  7. Gunny Highway

    Gunny Highway Hard Work and Sacrifice blessed by God's Grace

    My buddy came out of high school with a GPA near bottom of the class ( D+ type of grades ) . He was a bright guy but it never showed in testing. He became an electrician and was a damn fine one. 18 years later, he injured his wrist and needed surgery for carpal tunnel. He was faced with changing careers. I encouraged him to go into nursing. With much trepidation he began college to complete his prerequisites and struggled. I asked him if he had ever been evaluated for a learning disability ( I knew another friend who was incredibly bright also but struggled at school - he was dyslexic ). He was tested and indeed he had one. He learned coping strategies etc and he earned his degree and his license through the California Community College system.

    I think children are almost universally screened for the disability type of thing now but I truly think/feel today's kids are done a grave injustice with being steered into the College/University Lane of Life's Freeway with little regard for the simple fact not everyone should even attempt it. What do guidance counselors do anyway ? My son is grown so I am not current on today's methods of career aptitude guidance with the exception of the ASVAB test for the Military. Maybe they don't have guidance counselors with all the budget cuts ?
  8. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    I learned my trade from Uncle Sam and took those skills to the civilian side of the business when I left the service. With the technical training and work "experience", as reviewed by the state, I was fast tracked thru the licensing process since I met all pre-requisites. In addition to that tech training I was able to get 3/4 of my college without incurring any debt.... very grateful for that benefit while serving.

    Whenever I talk to a teenager to 20 something's I always recommend either doing a stint in the service, to take advantage of the training and education benefits, or
    vo-tech schooling. There is a shortage coming in many trades for experienced journeyman due to the older population exiting the workforce for retirement (which will drive up salaries). The pay is very good in most trades in my area with $30 to $40 plus per hour the norm plus beni's.... and no college debt to pay for 10 years....
    Colleges are just and extension of the indoctrination of our youth- with the added bonus of debt enslavement.. YMMV.
    STANGF150 and BTPost like this.
  9. natshare

    natshare Monkey+++

    Oh, yippee! Another way for Barry to grow the government, and empty the coffers at the same time! :rolleyes:

    Why not look into WHY these colleges feel it's necessary to charge so much (the cost of education has gone up exponentially in the past 35 years), AND start pushing kids and educators to get kids more interested in math and science related degrees (which will actually pay a decent salary once awarded), instead of taking the easy way out, with liberal "arts" degrees, which (no doubt) would include such tough classes as "basic underwater basket weaving"!! Society has dealt kids a shitty hand, by never making them understand that there's consequences to your decisions, and by letting them ALWAYS have it the easiest way possible......which just leads them to never want to face adversity in life, including going for the more difficult to attain degree programs.
    STANGF150 likes this.
  10. TwoCrows

    TwoCrows Monkey++

    As a former machinist I need to say that the only trades to get into are those that cannot be offshored.
    Manufacturing is near dead in the US, and too many of the remaining jobs expect you to work for the kind of money they pay in other countries.
    100 years ago a machinist was paid as much as a surgeon.
    50 years ago it was a solid middle class profession, income was enough for a family.
    In the last 20 to 30 years it has dropped to poverty class wages.
    natshare likes this.
  11. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I tell all the kids that I talk to on the subject to learn to repair something. That's one job that practically cannot be transferred overseas, and the more money that something costs to buy, or the more critical it is, the more money that can, and will, be charged to repair it. Business, retail, and large scale manufacturing are iffy areas to be in. A bad economy will hit those areas hard and quickly.
    kellory likes this.
  12. TwoCrows

    TwoCrows Monkey++

    On thing about all this debt talk that has been overlooked is that many younger people are avoiding credit cards in favor of debit cards.
    It may be that growing up seeing their parents and all those adults around them up to their eyeballs in debt has had an effect.
    tulianr and kellory like this.
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