Discussion in 'Firearms' started by 3M-TA3, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    I've been holding out for a tan/FDE KSG for the last few months as they were on backorder, and mine came in earlier this week. KSG stands for Kel-Tec Shot Gun and is a compact pump action bullpup design that holds seven 2 3/4" shells in each of it's tubes plus one in the chamber for a total of 15 rounds. It will also hold one less 3" shell in each tube for a total of 13 rounds. It does all this in a compact 26" length and weighs 6.9 lbs unloaded.

    Kel-Tec is a company known for innovative designs and as such things go are hit and miss. They make some very well thought out and reliable firearms as well as some that are marginal at best or even pure crap. The KSG has stood the test of time and is probably their best design so far.

    Here are some stock photos so you get an idea of how it's laid out.
    The front view is very intimidating with the twin magazines.

    The KSG comes in several colors besides black and tan. If I wasn't headed to desert country I'd have gone with OD Green

    I'm planning a few mods to mine based on some research and preference:
    • Sights: added my standard Troy folders w/ HK style front last night.
    • Reinforced metal picatinny rail for the hand guard. test fit this last night and will loct tite this weekend
    • VG or AFG added to the hand guard. I played around with these last night and am leaning towards the AFG. IMO some sort of hand stop is required to prevent your hand from getting in front of the muzzle during rapid fire. There is a notable incident where a fellow using an airsoft grip lost part of his hand when the grip broke during rapid fire.
    • Recoil pad - slipped on Pachmeyer Decellerator last night. Not sure if this will stay.
    • Extended mag selector
    • Metal magazine followers - as shipped the followers are plastic. Replacing them "just because".
    • Thumb activated 800 lumin light for that blinded deer in the headlight look for things that go "don't shoot!!!" in the night
    • Muzzle brake
    I'll post with pictures as I go through the mods over the next week or so as parts show up, then will follow up with observations about the strong and weak points of this firearm.
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  2. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Does it have a choke?
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  3. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    You can get a choke kit from Hi-Tech. You can either get a complete kit or just the adapter that takes Remington chokes:
    hitechcc: KSG Choke Adaptor & Chokes

    Hi-Tech makes most of the aftermarket parts I'm adding. The quality is superb.
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  4. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    Recoil ????
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  5. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    What's the price of such an animal? Me likes - A LOT!
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  6. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    800 pluserminus. Read some reviews, there have been some problems. Dunno if they have been fixed or not, just be aware.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  7. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    KSG Shotgun Striker Pump Handle?
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  8. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    Would be a while (READ: later this year) before I could buy one. Won't be back stateside until then, at the earliest. They would frown on me buying one here, I'm pretty sure. :D

    Edit: fergut ma smiley face.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2018
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  9. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    It's a 12 gauge that weighs about 7 lbs unloaded - also depends on if you are running Hornady Max Defense vs. reduced recoil loads. I'll be running snap caps, though until I have the battery of arms in muscle memory and am starting with a recoil pad and muzzle break but may ditch the pad and go with a choke adapter if I can tolerate the recoil during defense style shooting.

    This one is a second generation model - per the model specific forums the kinks have been worked out. The plastic shell followers are still an issue, but I've ordered both aluminum and stainless steel replacements. I can say that the trigger is very crisp for a bullpup, not far off an ALG ACT in an AR.

    Like any firearm my life may depend on from bear to self defense I'll be virtually sleeping with it for a while and doing whatever I can to break things. If it doesn't pass the test then it's going up for sale. This thread is about adding to the collective Monkey knowledge base to determine if this is a viable SHTF weapon.

    I looked at these as well, but I don't really like the standard grip position on a pump - the best feel for me is AFG followed by VFG. I like the low drag aspects of it, the high drag of a VFG being a definite minus. I'll likely be swapping things around until I settle on what works the best. IMO this is the most critical aspect as letting your hand come off the hand guard going forward during rapid fire would be disastrous. There will be a LOT of practice cycling snap caps before I do any rapid fire with live rounds.
  10. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    @3M-TA3, I didn't realize these were originally introduced in 2011. They've certainly had time to get the bugs out.

    Would love to see a photo of yours after the mods, if you're willing.
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  11. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    I'll be attaching photos as I mod things and especially if I find weak spots. The intended role is home defense and for bears after we move out of Nutlandia. I'm not going to bolt on anything stupid that slows it down or interferes with functionality - believe me I've seen some stupid shite on the various KSG forums.

    I'll also be doing a breakdown of ammunition especially the various home defense shells, vs. military vs some very small shells that let you load a truly stupid number of rounds.

    This is a learning experience, so I'm also open to "what if you try" and "How about" questions.
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  12. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Nice set up! Have been drooling over these for a while! Our next door neighbors oldest son picked one up about 2 years ago, and is most impressed with it! I believe he has had the shell followers replaced with the stainless versions, I need to ask why he went that way, but it is very reliable none the leas! I find it a bit front hand heavy, but it does balance well enough! Recoil is about the same as any other heavier 12 gau. Even the three inch heavies, are not that bad! I ran a few different loads through it, mainly 00 Buck and 11/4 oz slugs with zero problems! I did put a few 3 inches 1 1/2 oz. through it and also no problems.
    All in all, I was very impressed with these, a good solid design that works well enough, and seems to be tough enough for serious work! I like that it is really adaptable for different mission profiles and is easy enough to switch over as demands dictate!
    I need one like I need another hole in my head, so it's not likely I will be getting one, but it's a nice unit, and top of my list for a replacement fighting skatter gun if I ever needed to replace something!

    Curious to see how it runs with all the different types of ammo, and especially with full brass shells running black powder and balls!
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  13. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    I've ordered both the aluminum and stainless followers and plan on testing both in dusty, dirty, and damp environments. Stainless has the advantage that it will never wear out and the aluminum has a reputation of being more reliable for some reason - could just be a dimensional difference.

    Ammo testing is going to be fun - I already have Winchester military grade and PDX-1 defense as well as Hornady Max defense on the list. I'm also going to take a look at the Aguila mini shells - the KSG can hold 25 of these if you have one in the chamber! Any particular ammo I should also be looking at? I'm looking at two different scenarios outside of just shooting for fun: 1) home defense and 2) grizzly bears.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  14. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    If you are going to be in the Nutland area I got a great deal from an FFL who works out of his home in Banks. He was cheaper than Buds and everywhere else I could find on the net, plus he only charged $10 for the BGC. I'll probably also have some parts that didn't work out for me, but might for you if you are interested. Just let me know when the time comes.
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  15. Oddcaliber

    Oddcaliber Monkey+++

    Wow,puts my Maverick 88 to shame! Say hello to my little friend.
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  16. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    I have used the exact same Guy in Banks, and I can tell you, I wouldn't go any where else BUT him! Hell of a guy, and he went way above and beyond for me on a special order! Not one single FFL was willing to work through the deal with the gun maker, except him, and it only took him 2 days to get the order through, and 5 weeks for the build to be completed and shipped! THAT earns max points in my book!
    Hey, try to find some of the Mil stuff that Ficoochi puts out, I have run most of it through my guns, and never had any issues! Even the flares ran flawlessly! I settled on the Fleshette rounds, and the ball/cable rigging shells, and also the mixed buck and ball! Very nasty stuff, and getting expensive, but it' a buy once cry once deal, run a few rounds to see how it goes, Stash a few boxes away, and your good! For bears, I prefer a duster round first up, usually BB or #2 shot, followed by strait slugs! Have not had to put down any bears with shotty, but every thing I have seen, all seems to do the basic same thing , so your El-Cheap-O 1 1/4oz sabot slugs through a improved choke seems about the best for deep penetration! DO NOT run a rifles choke with sabot, EVER!!! The next best load is 000 Buck, this I have put down some big stuff with ( no Bears) and it punches nice and deep! I usually only run 2 3/4 shot shells in the HD and light woods role, with my much preferd Winny 97, that's all I can run, and they do well enough, every thing else gets 3 in loads, or 3 1/2 if it's the Remmy 870 Super, might as well, never can have too much power with a shotty! For 3 1/2 loads, your going to have to look around a fair bit, not a whole lot of options ( at least last I checked) and I don' know if you can even run them any way. The Winny PDX stuff is kind of funky, some guns like it choked, some don't, so I would certainly try it with a few different chokes to see how it patterns! In fact, I would pattern the gun with several chokes and loads to find what works best, and then see if one can work for most and run that one! Pro tip for ya, once you do find a good all around choke, go see Velsey and have him weld up a breacher extension with ports, you'll thank me later on! May also have him port the barrel past the 16 in mark ( but before the choke threads) will really tame a kicker with heavy loads, and allow you to loose the recoil pad! You know Velsey, he gets off on cool stuff like this, so he will prolly have some other tuning tricks for you!!!
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  17. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    @Ura-Ki The guy in Banks is pretty cool - he had a flame thrower on his kitchen table when I got there. Lots of good information there! Never thought about having the barrel ported so I could use the choke, and the breacher, hmmm....
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  18. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    I've been away far too long.
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  19. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Like I said before, that Dealer is my one and only from now on ( while in OryGun) he has a great attitude about business, enjoys ordering special stuff for folks, and has a great rapport with some of the hardest sources to get stuff from! Even had him special order a very hard to find scope for me, a Leatherwood Varialux 6X24x50 auto ranging, with ballstic compensation and lit reticle! Also had him special order the compensating turrets for 168- 180gr .30/06 and 150-190 gr .308 win! Have a quick mount for my FAL, and a tip off on my Springfield, so I can use the same scope and upper mount on both rifles, but have the advantages of ether when I require it! Pretty trick set up!
    He also scored me a gen 4 ACOG .308 for $690 and free shipping! Can't touch that any where for even twice that price!!! Yup, he's my guy now!!!
    3M-TA3 likes this.
  20. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    How are you going to get it home, or are you moving back here?

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