Lakeland, FL

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CRC, Sep 29, 2006.

  1. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Right where I was last weekend....

    Police Search for Man Who Shot Officers in Florida
    Sheriff's Deputy and His K-9 Dog Die From Wounds


    LAKELAND, Florida (CNN) -- SWAT police officers were swarming "through every square inch" of thickly overgrown Florida woods Friday as the manhunt intensified for an accused cop killer.
    "I want to say to his friends, that if you try to hide him or move him, we'll put you in jail," said Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd at a Friday news conference. "We're watching associates, we're watching their movements, we're watching people who we have linked to him all over the state of Florida at this time."
    Police insist they will not rest until they capture the man, whom they suspect of killing a sheriff's deputy and wounding another during a routine traffic stop. They think he is involved in illegal drugs.
    An area high school is expected to be shut Friday a day after three schools were locked down as the manhunt began.
    "We are prepared for a gunfight if he wants a gunfight," Judd said Friday. "Or we're prepared to take him in peaceably if he has any sense at all, he'll choose that option."
    A $40,000 reward has been offered for the man.
    The man is suspected of shooting the two sheriff's deputies, one fatally, and killing a police dog after being pulled over for speeding on Thursday, the sheriff said.
    Deputy Vernon Matthew "Matt" Williams, a 12-year veteran of the department, and his canine officer, Diogi, were shot to death, Judd said.
    Deputy DougSpeirs was shot in the leg and is expected to make a full recovery. He was treated and released at a hospital. (Watch sheriff vow: "We will find him" -- 3:40 [​IMG])
    Speirs pulled the suspect over about 11:45 a.m. for speeding, Judd said. The suspect -- described as a black male, 6-feet-tall, wearing a white or light khaki T-shirt and dark pants and having a "Jamaican" accent -- told Speirs he had a Florida identification card but no driver's license.
    During the traffic stop, Speirs went back to his car and returned several times to talk to the man, who was driving a rental car. At one point, the man asked, "Are you going to put me in jail?"
    Speirs, Judd said, had already called for backup because he was suspicious and did not want to aggravate the situation. The deputy told the suspect that he doubted he would go to jail, saying, "It's a hot day. I'm not in the mood to drive all the way to the county jail."
    But the man then ran into some adjacent woods, Judd said. Speirs went in about 200 to 300 feet, then returned to meet arriving officers and set up a perimeter.
    Williams, the police dog and Speirs then returned to the woods, where they experienced "a sudden burst of gunfire," Judd said. During the ensuing firefight, Williams, Speirs and the dog were shot. Speirs then called for an ambulance, paramedics and additional police units.
    Williams was shot multiple times, Judd said. "I don't believe he felt a thing."
    A short time later, a Lakeland police detective was also fired on when he was notifying residents of a nearby home that the suspect might be in the area. When he returned fire, the suspect ran back into the woods, Judd said.
    Police released a photo of the suspect but said it was taken off a Florida identification card thought to be false and could not verify the man's name or address. He is thought to be from Miami, Judd said, and police believe he may have some involvement with a narcotics ring.
    Citizens offering information were told to call (800) 226-TIPS.
    "We want this guy. We want him very badly. We want him in custody. We want him brought to justice," Judd said. "We know there are people out there that know him very well. If we haven't been to your house yet, we will be."
    It was believed that Diogi may have attacked the suspect before being shot, and deputies also returned fire at the suspect. He may be shot or bitten, Judd said.
    Three schools in the area initially were locked down. Students were bused out of the last facility, a high school, as of about 6:30 p.m. and taken to a church where their parents could pick them up, according to the sheriff's office.
    Williams is survived by his wife and three children, a twin son and daughter, 16, and a 19-year-old son, Judd said. He was shot to death on his wife's birthday.
  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Well, a couple of things to point out. I certainly don't intend to minimize the death of anyone or give the impression of defending a slimebag dope dealer, but:
    1. Presumption of innocence until proven guilty is being ignored. There were no witnesses to say that this was the man that shot them, they might have chased him right into a patch-guard.
    2. Somebody sics a dog on me, for any reason, and I am not buying the officer deputy-dog shit. There's gonna be a dead dog.
    3. I have seen what it's like being profiled by Florida cops at traffic stops as a single white-man driving a rental heading north and can only imagine what it would be like to be black, jamacian, dred-locked, and not have a government permission card to drive. I probably would have ran too.
    4. They'll hunt this fellow down and kill him and be heroes and we'll never know what actually happened. The story told will make us all feel a little safer.
  3. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Looks Like Seacowboys was right on this one. He wasn't coming out alive...look at the military guys and their HUMVEE. Are the cops or what?

    The expansive search for a man who shot two sheriff’s deputies yesterday has ended fatally today, according to the Polk County sheriff. The suspect was shot to death this morning as he hid in a hollowed-out area under a fallen oak tree.
    “God will be the judge and jury this time,” said Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd.

    > News Channel 8 Video
    > Previous Coverage

    The unidentified man was shot multiple times, halting a huge manhunt that was to involve about 1,000 searchers today.
    He was wanted for opening fire on deputies after a routine traffic stop Thursday, killing one. The other deputy was shot in the leg and later released from the hospital. He is expected to make a full recovery, according to the Polk County Sheriff’s Office.
    A sheriff’s dog was also shot to death in the burst of gunfire Thursday.
    Judd says the suspected shooter was located this morning while law officers were combing a heavily wooded area shoulder-to-shoulder. The search, which commenced around noon Thursday, continued all night. It centered on a sparsely populated swath of 75 to 150 acres west of Lakeland.
    Officers found the man in the same wooded area, armed with a gun. It is possible the weapon belongs to one of the deputies, Judd said.
    Identifying the suspect proved to be difficult for investigators, as they uncovered several aliases. Judd says the man’s name could be Andrew Colxton, Alex Cloxton, or Anglo Freeland. The suspected shooter was initially identified as Eswardo O. Ramclaim, of Miami.
    The man’s body will be taken to the medical examiner, and Judd says his office will conduct a thorough investigation.
    Earlier, Judd said the man is likely involved in dealing drugs, but could not pinpoint a motive for Thursday’s shootings.
  4. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I have a good friend, of Cuban descent here....Ralph.

    1st person I met when I moved here 19 yrs ago.

    We were traveling in his car to Hialeah one time to see his brother. (Record Producer, Head of the Names project..Aids Memorial Quilt...Developer...Very upstanding family!)

    We were a while woman and a Cuban man...In a car with out of state tags...and get this..."Fast Food bags in the back seat"...

    We were detained for 7 hours in Central Florida, due to profiling in the great state of Florida.

    For nothing. Not speeding. Legal tags, fully insured, etc......No background problems...

    and they were NOT nice.

    SC is right. Florida is famous for profiling.

    Of course, that also happened to me in the 70's on the way to a Jethro Tull concert...because 2 of my friends with me had "long hair" ...WE had to wait while they sent 2 jars of my mothers Caesar Salad dressing to a lab to have it analyzed before they let us go.

    I better shut up now.
  5. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    And this surprises anyone? apparently the gun belonged to one of the cops. No mention of any drugs found or any laws it went something like "let's stop the rasta and see what he's got...better call Bubba with the K9 and scare the hell out of him, you know how they love dogs..heh heh...":eek:
  6. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Maybe I am just a sheep, but I don't automatically make the assumption that the law enforcement officer is in the wrong. I know some really good people in law enforcement, I also knew of one that was as crooked as they come. All in all though it seems like we are getting a lot of post and threads that are disparaging law enforcement as a whole and this concerns me. I think that as a whole they are good people and they are putting their lives on the line for us daily. A lot of good people in L.E. died in those towers in 9/11, and a lot of them die every year protecting the public. I just hate to see the "broad stroke" of anti-law enforcement that I am seeing here lately being painted on this board. It is a tough and thankless job they do.

    Williams is survived by his wife and three children, a twin son and daughter, 16, and a 19-year-old son, Judd said. He was shot to death on his wife's birthday.
    Not to mention they are vastly underpaid. I bet if you asked Deputy Williams' wife and three children if their husband and daddy made enough money to justify his being murdered, that you would get a quick response.
  7. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I do not support any type of militarized police force. I vehemently attack the concept of LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS as opposed to peace officers. When Adolf Hitler developed the concept of catching people with viscious dogs, american people were shocked and outraged. When TV sells us on the idea of LEO officer K9, what a great idea!
    I frequently work in disasters and there are many more regular citizens there to lend assistance than cops and firemen, who are being paid to do it; kind of makes me think heroes don't necessarily have to wear a combat fatigues and carry MP5s.
    We make no allowances that most Nazi SS went home to wife and kids and were well thought of in their communities except for by a few. When they were convicted for war crimes and hanged, most of them were incredulous and could not believe that they were being punished just following orders.
    When a person is predictably gunned down by several hundred, yes that is an accurate number, of soldiers (look at their pictures, not a recognizable police uniform in the lot) armed with optional less than lethal weapons, reeks of no trial needed.
  8. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    You would really need to define "militarized." Should they not carry semi-automatic AR's, wear bullet proof vest, etc.? The madman here in town that started killing people at the courthouse last year was armed with a MAK-90 and multiple layers of armor. He was hit many time by officers with sidearms but was not brought down until he was shot with an AR. Now I don't agree with the military being at Mt. Carmel during the Branch Dividian Siege, that is a different story. Law Enforcement, Peace Officers, they are the same thing. In the State of Texas before you can become a law enforcement officer you must be a certified Peace Officer. To protect and serve. Their job is to enforce the laws. They are people though, and not perfect.

    I agree heroes don't have to be in uniform. And the regular citizens that jump in to help should be praised, they are not doing what they have been trained to do but they are doing what is right.

    How can you compare Nazi's with local law enforcement? That is rediculous. Wow, they were wearing camo, well I guess I am a Nazi because I have a closet full of it. Lets see, you are chasing someone who has just killed one of your brother officers, and he is in the woods. Wouldn't it be natural when you suit up to go in after him that you wear something that will not make you a target but help you to blend in? Last year when a mentally unstable father of a player shot the football coach the shooter took off in the woods. They found the shooter a couple of miles down the road from my house. When they showed the scene on TV there were quite a few LEO's/Peace Officers wearing camo. Not feds, not military, but our local guys that were in the woods looking for this guy. I would have been wearing camo also. Our county sheriff's dept. has a armored vehicle. Does this make them "militarized?" They used it this year to save a deputy that had been wounded by a man that also killed the constable. I do realize that there are some bad cops out there, and lots that take advantage of their power. But would you rather us have no protection, should their be no deterent to breaking the laws? Irregardless of the facts, there is always a conspiracy, and always plenty of bashing the law enforcement community.
  9. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Okay, time for me to throw my sense in. Haha.

    I can say for sure that Florida is big time known for profiling. Did it happen or not? We'll never know. Did the guy deserve to die? We'll never know. Was it even a provoked fight for your life thing that caused the officer to get killed? We'll never know.

    What we will know is what the media lets us in on or what the cop would say if you talked to him. If he was in the wrong in the least, he would not even admit it. If he was in the right, then he is already saying so and people still don't believe him.

    Did they overstep some boundary by suiting up in camo and bring a hummer to the game? I think that has been answered sufficiently by E.L.

    I do not agree with a 'Militaristic' police force, though this isn't such a carefree land as England appears to be. Around here the bad guys have big guns, so should the officers. Sticks just won't do. As far as the K9 goes, if it is killed in the line of duty or just from choking on a hairball, it's a dead dog.

    Someone who loved it and worked constantly with it will feel some loss and that loss may push any 'person' to a snapping point. I have yet to meet any LEO that was a K9 cop that thought of their dog as anything other than a partner and friend. It's not uncommon to form a bond with an animal as you would a human.

    Funny thing is, when the cops do it, they are weird. When you do it in your house, you are just like everybody else.

    Also, it is not the fact of working with a dog, it is the way in which the dog is used. If I tell you to stop and you do not stop, I could shoot you or release the dog. Which would anyone prefer? Death or some lacerations and punctures that can almost be guaranteed not to be life threatening.

    The K9 cop knows when to use his dog and when not to. You see it all the time when they hold the leash and tell the perp to get on the ground. Perp no listen, doggy time. Haha.

    I think like some that the LEOs have gotten a bad rap. This is due in part to some fancy-feelers letting their little anarchist buddy out from in their ear, maybe from just hating any kind of authority, some real bad cops, or just the political spin that they are being fed daily by the media. Which is it?

    I have known three cops that I can say were walking piles of crap. One, a sheriff used to boot bound prisoners in the face. Another was a K9 cop who would turn his dog on a 90 year old lady. The other was a half-wit that hid behind his badge sort of like a dumbaqq barney fife.

    Then there are all the rest of them. Good ones if I ever seen any. I've had my run-ins with the cops, even had a cousin who was chief of police. I like the ones that know what their duties are and act that way. Those who use their position to further their powertrip will know right fast that I don't like them and will not take anything they say or do seriously.

    Then again I am a little higher on the food chain than most of them. Haha.

    Kicking in the doors of innocent people because you don't have the round ones to stand up for what is right is not what being a cop is all about. You have those types and they just wear the uniform. They are playing 'Pretend I'm a Cop'. Then you have the others.

    You want a door kicked in, you call me. I'll do it for kicks and giggles though you better have a good reason why. Oh, and if they sue me, you're footing the bill.

    Don't know if this rant makes much sense. Hope so. I think I confused myself. :D
  10. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    My sister is a peace officer. She proudly wears her blue uniform and service weapon and has been decorated numerous times over the past thirty years. She has saved lives, stopped crimes in progresss, quietened domestic disturbances, arrested drunken drivers, and has unfortunately had to shoot people on occassion over the past 30 years. She does not own a pair of BDUs or an MP5 because she doesn't hunt and has no desire to be Rambo. She wears cop shoes, not combat boots. She wears the distinctive hat, not a ball-cap. She is proud of her uniform because it identifies her easily to small children that may be lost or afraid. It identifies her as someone that has dedicated her life to "Protecting and Serving" her community.
    I shoot competitively with a great number of BDU dressed soldier wanna-be cops and ex-soldiers turned cops because cops get to go home at night. We don't need them. We need peace officers, not LEOs. Barny did just fine in small towns and big cities. I have a great deal of respect for the men and woment that truly serve their community. I have no use for soldiers being set on our citizens. I would have volunteered to go in and get that man out by myself, or maybe with one or two others.
    I don't know that this was a bad killing, only that it could have avoided looking like an armed invasion of troops.
    I don't know that the guy wasn't a dangerous luny, only that I know how easy it is to get you ass kicked by a bunch of Florida cops because you meet a certain profile and refuse to let them search your vehicle and only have their version of it recorded for posterity.
    I do know that it was a no-brainer to predict that there would be a large number of military clad pissed-off cops stomping the woods hoping for a shot at this bastard and that man didn't have one chance in a million of ever seeing a court-room. Called it; then watched it on the news.
    Comparing our militerized police to nazis really isn't that far to reach if you read history from the 1930s. German police were good citizens just enforcing their laws. They were respected members of their communities. The laws were ever increased to place more controls on the population and the means of enforcing them escalated with more survielance and means of enforcing them. More people became in violation of these laws and protested, the police escalated, eventually into the SS. I have a good many German friends and I cannot believe their parents were evil people, only supporting an evil agenda that was sold on them. When an "US and THEM" mentality is developed by our peace keepers, they cease to become a functioning part of our community. When PROTECT and SERVE" becomes "LAW ENFORCEMENT", we are being roped into someone else's agenda. I see this as a dangerous trend and it frightens me. I know to the depths of my soul that when combined with the elastic enturpretation of our constitutional rights and liberties and a Supreme Court that has been cockolded, it can't have a good ending. I see good citizens such as yourself, needing to believe in the system to the point of turning a blind eye to the trend and defending it in the hope that because it's the law, it must be to protect us. I see rightous anger that anyone would question a developing system that can only escalate in controling people as subjects rather than citizens and this makes me sad. Yet the one telling tale is that if there is so much faith that the system is working for our own good, then why are you administrating a site dedicated to survival when the system fails?
  11. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    A lot of this I agree with, whole heartedly. I can't comment on Florida cops, I am sure that there probably are a lot of policies and officers on the heavy handed side. As far as profiling, well if we would started profiling the middle eastern male more we wouldn't have the deaths that we have now. If 100% of the crimes committed are committed by a certain profile then hell yeah, check them all. When a large number of the crime committed is committed by a certain profile it is just natural to check more of that profile. As far as a search, never, ever, let anyone search your vehicle without a search warrant. Why? Not because every LEO is crooked, but because it is unlawful. If everyone fought this then they would quit doing it.

    All we can go by is what is reported. As such, you have a man that already killed one deputy, shot another, then killed his K-9 partner. So what makes you think he is going to go peacefully? I have never run from the cops, yet alone shot at one.

    I agree, I don't like the "us and them" mentality either. I also think there are way too many SWAT teams, and way too many that are heavy handed. Yesterday on A&E I watched "Dallas SWAT" act on wrong information, and hit a house that was a duplex. They hit both sides, the left side was full of women, children, and elderly. They through a flashbang in the window where the women and children were. That infuriated me, they act too quickly with too little intel. If they screw up and go into the wrong house they are going to get lots of innocents killed, not to mention LEO's and this has happened before. This needs to change.

    My defense is for the LEO community as a whole. I look at each individual case on it's merits. As far as the system, well there are parts of I agree with and some that I don't. Just like the "Patriot Act." That being said I am not going to condemn every Gov. agent or LEO nor automatically think they are wrong. I am however going to give them the benefit of the doubt until different information is disseminated.

    I think that questioning the system is a good thing. Do not mistake my comments for anger because that is not the emtion that drives them, rather the concern for the feeling of anti-police/LEO/Peace Officers that I have seen lately on the board as I stated in my first post. Have enough information to make your point revelant when attacking the individual cases. I am not talking about the system as a whole. As far as that is concerned when I see something that I don't like, I actually write and e-mail my congressmen. That is why I get so much mail back from the likes of Kay Baily Hutchinson, Louie Gohmert, and John Cornyn.

    For one, survival to me means more than just the Gov. becoming an anarchy or the collapse of the system. Survival to me is many things. That is why I carry a med kit in every vehicle, and in every one of my offices. It is why I have been trained in CPR. It is why I am armed, and not just for the hypothetical storm troopers that will burst into my house. I think that it is more likely that the training I have had will be needed for some meth-head looking to make a score to pay for his next hit, or some pedophile looking to abduct one of my girls, or some thug who just doesn't like the way I look, or wants the vehicle I drive. Survival also means being prepared for anything. For the collapse of the economy, for the acts of nature that can ravage our communities. Last year I had an extra 13 people in my house when they evacuated from Hurricane Rita. I was prepared, even for the potential of us losing power and not being able to leave the house for down trees and powerlines. The system is not close to being perfect. I don't wait for the system to take care of me. I prepare to take care of myself and my family. I am here for the information I can learn, the knowledge I can hopefully share, and because I enjoy the discussion with my friends, such as you SeaCowboys. Remember, sometimes we have to agree to disagree on some things.
  12. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I am going to beat you to the punch on this one.,2933,216898,00.html

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD>Florida Police Shot Suspected Cop Killer 68 Times
    Sunday , October 01, 2006
    LAKELAND, Fla. — "Officers fired 110 rounds of ammunition at the man suspected of killing a sheriff's deputy, killing the suspect, according to an autopsy released by the sheriff's office.
    Angilo Freeland — who was suspected of fatally shooting the deputy after being pulled over for speeding Thursday — was hit 68 times by the SWAT team members' shots, the examination released Saturday showed.
    He also was suspected of wounding a deputy and killing a police dog.
    Freeland's death ended a nearly 24-hour manhunt that forced schools to lock down and families to stay indoors as about 500 officers scoured the woods.

    The wounded deputy had pulled Freeland over for speeding and became suspicious of his identification. The suspect got nervous and bolted into the woods, officials said.
    Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said he was not concerned by the number of shots fired.
    "You have to understand, he had already shot and killed a deputy, he had already shot and killed a K-9 and he shot and injured another deputy," Judd said by phone Saturday. "Quite frankly, we weren't taking any chances."
    Ten SWAT officers surrounded Freeland on Friday as he hid beneath brush and a fallen tree in a rural area. Authorities say he raised the gun belonging to the deputy he had killed, prompting nine officers to fire.
    "I suspect the only reason 110 rounds was all that was fired was that's all the ammunition they had," Judd said. "We were not going to take any chance of him shooting back."
    The SWAT officers who shot Freeland have been placed on paid administrative leave, standard procedure in all police shootings.
    Also released Saturday were autopsy results for the deputy, Vernon Matthew Williams, 39, which showed he had been shot eight times. He was not wearing a protective vest, but shots hit him in his right leg and behind his right ear, among other places.
    Diogi, his German shepherd police dog, was also killed. The dog had been shot once in the chest.
    Authorities said deputy sheriff Doug Speirs, also 39, was fired at several times and shot once in the leg. A sergeant and an officer from the Lakeland Police Department were also fired at, authorities said."

    I know what is coming so I am going to address it first. I have a friend that is former DEA that has been involved in several shootings. He told me that in front of the grand jury when asked why he shot the suspect 6 times he replied "because that is all the ammunition my gun would hold."
    Was it overkill, maybe but when confronted with someone raising a gun at you I would be willing to bet that just like those officers you are going to let loose. Fear is a powerful motivator. Maybe it wasn't like that, but if so we will never know the truth.

    </TD></TR><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 20px"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  13. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    E.L., I tried to remove the ad, can't find it in the text. If you go in to edit, maybe you can find it.

    Anyway, I had the same thing copied to paste in here. 110 rounds fired and 68 wounds is a firing squad performing an execution. Shoot him 68 times, you don't have to do the Lee Harvey Oswald thing and take him back inside to wait a couple of hours before you call the ambulance. SWAT team was judge, jury and executioner, denied him the right to a trial.

    No matter how badly they wanted to do it, to avenge their fellow officer shot eight times, they have to be more disciplined than that. Like Sea said, I don't know if that was a bad killing, but it sure doesn't look like a good one.

    I posted one in here a month or so ago, a SWAT team broke into a house with a OLD man and woman home, and still roughed tham up. Dislocated the old man's shoulder, beat the old woman up, too. I am also very disturbed at the trend in SWAT mistakes, seems like we are expected to believe that's part of the game.
  14. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I have a suspicion that because funds are made available to many LE agencies for SWAT units, even to the small bergs where the most active crime is vandalism, many departments are being armed and semi-trained in SWAT tactics. Then, they feel the need to use those teams, whether necessary or not. Sometimes, it makes me think of kids playing cops and robbers but with real life consequences.

    The upside is that more departments are being armed with weapons that equal those of the criminals. Where I live, we don't see too much violent crime but a mere 30 miles away, there are almost nightly street deaths by the gangs. Maybe the answer lies in carefully choosing police officers, not just anyone who can get through training, and then giving them training which is greater than adequate.
  15. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    I was always told that was the political danger of using the military for riot control, police were trained to hesitate, ti try to de-escalate the situation, to use deadly force as only a last resort, and the military was trained to shoot.
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

  17. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Dee, I only recall ever reading of but one incident, the californica bank robbery, where police were out gunned and that was used to arm all the little mom and pop police departments with military weapons and tactics. That single incident did not initiate the arming of the police, just standardized it. I can't recall ever reading a single incident where machinegun toting cops have ingaged in a prolonged firefight with gangbangers armed with automatic weapons, or drug dealers, or even bank robbers. One single incident. Criminals are mostly armed with stolen pistols around here, maybe a cut-off shotgun or two. It's middleclass whiteboys that are shooting up the post office and schools with AKs and the cops aren't shooting it out with them.
  18. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I was thinking more in terms of the funds which have become available thru Homeland Security. You wouldn't believe all the little police departments who have acquired M14's through Police Supply and have come to us for mounts for their scopes. These small and medium towns now have sniper and SWAT teams.
  19. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    We just have to hope they never need them. The civilian population of the US will become a target for the extremists if we ever suddenly pull out of Iraq.
  20. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Fear is a motivator, wether great or not depends on the person. However how much fear can riot officers have when encased in body armor with auto weapons and facing a guy who may have grabbed a 9mm pistol from a cop? This is a flagrant disregard of proven tactics and total lack of discipline on the commander's part. He needs to heel his hounds better or just give up office before he finds himself facing someone who isn't so 'scared'.

    This man needs to have his head handed to him and something definitely needs to be done to these trigger happy idiots that are calling themselves SWAT. I bet it's just a bunch of guys that passed the training only in the physical aspect and were handed the answers to the written part.

    Straight out of the loony bin, off of couches where they held game controls is where most of the SWAT members come from now. It used to be that you had to have some amount of brain power and discipline to be SWAT.

    I don't care who you are or how tough you think you are or how many years you have been a cop or a Soldier, if you get that frightened in any type of gun situation you need to give up the job and go back to momma. I'm sure she'll take your fears away.

    There is no excuse for this exhibit I see before me reported from Florida. None at all. I don't care if you are a PO, LEO or whatever jargon and spin you want to put on it. If you back this type of action then you are condoning idiots and morons to continue to act with extreme force when deadly is just fine. I guess these guys have never heard the saying, 'One shot, One kill'. Not 110. Who the hello were they going after? The terminator?

    This happens everywhere and should not in the least be excused. These guys should at least be placed on six month, no pay suspension. What's next? Tear gassing a 90 year old lady that jwalked?

    The more of this behavior 'citizens' accept, the more extreme it will become and then on whose shoulder will you be boohooing when it happens to you? Certainly not mine. I guess what it all boils down to is someone needs a good old fashioned behind the barn butt kickin'.
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