Lessons from History?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Minuteman, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Some quotes I found that seem to describe our world today.

    The Matrix is a system, Neo, and that system is our enemy. When you are inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are part of that system and that makes them our enemies. You have to understand most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many are so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it. -Morpheus in The Matrix'

    The greater part of the population is not very intelligent, dreads responsibility, and desires nothing better than to be told what to do. Provided the rulers do not interfere with its material comforts and its cherished beliefs, it is perfectly happy to let itself be ruled. - Aldous Huxley

    The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men. - Samuel Adams

    There are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. - Goethe

    History is the lie commonly agreed upon. - Voltaire

    All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally it is accepted as self-evident. - Schoepenhouer

    Wisdom is knowing how little we know. - Socrates

    I have been studying philosophy (don't ask why, just one of those wild hairs I get from time to time), primarily the ancient Greeks and specifically the founders and promoters of Republicanism. Which our entire political system is modeled on. It is a very eye opening study.
    Aristotle, Socrates and Plato were all the progeniters of the system we have today. But what exactly were the ideas that they promoted?

    You may have heard of Plato's Republic. Arguably the most influential treatise affecting modern politics.
    But was it the "free" and fair Republican ideals that we espouse today?

    Plato, and the other founders of the Republican philosophy were members of the elite. They were of the upper caste of society and the "priviliged".
    They believed in freedom, in as much as it pertained to their particular elitist caste.
    The other levels of society were the workers, whose job and duty it was to support the enlightened rulers of the ruling class. And the slave class whose toils and labors built and maintained the priviledge of the elites.
    Do you see the resemblances to our modern society? Our leaders see themselves as the elite and enlightened ones who are fated to rule over us. They are the educated ones who know what is best for those of us in the lower classes.

    Our toil and labor is to them their due. It is to support them and their tier of society. So that they can be free to rule over us who cannot do so ourselves.

    Doesn't this seem to be the attitude of our leaders today. Hillary Clinton has said that we don't need a tax break because we cannot spend it wisely. She and the other elites know what is best for us. And they take the fruits of our labors with no remorse or hesitation believing as did Aristotle,Plato and Socrates that it is ther right and due.

    This is the foundation of the political system that is supposed to be the freest in the world.
    But we should look to history and see how that system worked out for the Greeks.
    The "Sophist" movement took root in a disenfranchised populace. They began to resent and despise the "elite" and began to look to themselves and reject the elitist republican syatem that robbed them of their wealth and power.

    While Plato argued that the individual should subordinate himself to the state, that the state should have complete control of the lives of it's members, the sophists argued that the individual,when allowed to achieve his full potential, was the strength of the state. And that the states' duty was to provide the oppurtunity for the individual to assert his ultimate worth and independance.
    In Platos dialoque "Gorgias" he quotes a well known Sophist " The makers of the laws are the majority who are weak;and they make laws and distribute praises and censures with a view to themselves and their own interests;and they terrify the stronger of society and those who are able to get the better of them, in order that they may not get the better of them."

    Their doctrines led to a widespread refusal of the lower Greeks to subject themselves to the power of the elite class.
    This disenfranchisement led to a tearing apart of the basic foundation that the mighty Greek culture had been built upon. The unity of the great city states of Athens, Sparta and Corinth was destroyed.
    When Phillip of Macedon expanded his empire into Greece the great city states could offer no resistance and eventually all of Greece fell.
    The great empire was destroyed by a disfranchised people who tired of being ruled by an elite class that took as their right the labor of those they ruled.

    A warning for us today? Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.
  2. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Clyde the Sophist. I like the ring. One would think the enlightened leaders would learn, but they won't because they know too much. What books would one read to further understand the above?
  3. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Plato's "Republic". Tho I have to admit I can't get through much of it without falling asleep.

    A later work that is telling of his views on mans relationship to the state is "The Laws".

    A good, but not in depth, introduction to basic philosophicle schools of thought is " Basic Teachings Of The Great Philosophers" by S.E. Frost Jr.
  4. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    The Matrix sums all of this up in a nice 2 hour package. Love, Love, Love that movie.

    Little OT but...
    An interesting book I read about The Matrix was called
    The Gospel Reloaded: Exploring Spirituality and Faith in The Matrix
    The religious imagery was not coincidental

    Amazon.com: The Gospel Reloaded: Exploring Spirituality and Faith in The Matrix…@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41OnVcCg8-L.@@AMEPARAM@@41OnVcCg8-L
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    "Of all the mistakes mankind has ever made...of all he will ever make, religion will forever be the monument he has labored to create and defend. Remove this monument and his belief system will collapse, to be replaced with either an age of reason...or total darkness." -an unknown Monkey Poster.
  6. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    No age of reason in the forecast. For such to happen, all humankind must be able to think. I notice a paucity of that in the general population. There is a pretty good case to be made for the Founding Fathers definition of citizen (which, as you know, is different from today's.) :sneaky:[troll]
  7. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Sophicles, Aristotle,See you guys aren't all about guns and whiskey ,( though there's nothing wrong with a little aiming fluid at the cleaning bench if the ammunition is separated and stored away. Just don't mix up the michelob bottle for the brown glass bottle holding the "teflon break free", tastes awful...don't ask how I know that. [booze][LMAO]
    I only have one problem with Mr. platos' ruling elite:
    Something along the lines of "All men were created equal"and none are above thelaw.... not even the president or law enforcement officers..[flag]
  8. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Tango, rofl...that must have sucked!

    Ghrit, my friend -you are absolutely correct, too. The trickery was in the courts, due to the federal zone (Washington DC) extending itself unconstitutionally beyond its limits. Nobody really seemed to notice the difference between "citizen of the State of Nebraska" from "Citizen of the United States". Of course, this permits the dastardly IRS folk to pretend as though they have jurisdiction, and the problem is compounded. I forget the exact laws and statutes, but they can be found relatively easy at the supremelaw.org website.
  9. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Loose tongue and non-squeaky teeth for a month!:sneaky::sick:[LMAO]
    Didn't make it down the hatch though, just a rinse...
    never did that again( no beer at the cleaning bench!)!!
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