Let the WAR begin! (MUHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAaaaaa) glock vs 1911

As for dimensions, it adds 6 mm in width over a single stack. Some of that can be offset with thinner grips (I did this for my Wife) and the magazines can be had in any capacity from 13 .45 all the way to 21 9 mm! .38 super is tecinally the same as 9 mm, so that can make all the difference!
They are almost a drop in fit, only really needing some blending to match what ever slide you choose to run. Trigger shoes can be changed with out changing the trigger bow, and that can also help tune to better! If you can almost fit a Para Ordnance double stack, then this will fit a little bit better!

No worries Bandit99! Happy to share!
10 mm is a whole different animal then the "standards" were all used to, think of 10 mm like .357 mag +p+ in a semi auto platform! All the goodness of the legendary revolver round in a mag feed side arm. Some specs! 180 gr round nose JHP @ 1340 fps and 660 pounds of energy. 200 gr JHP @ 1260 fps and 780 pounds. 220 gr jacketed soft point or hard cast lead @ 1210 and 830 pounds energy! Then you hand load and add quite a lot more! All these numbers are from a 5 in barrel, add 10% more for a 6 in barrel and the big 10 makes a super hunting round!

 

I never thought I'd ever find a semi auto calibre that I liked better for carry than the .45ACP. Then I got my first Delta..
I am currently gathering up parts for the double stack 10. I love my old Para P13, but I've always wanted the same type pistol in a 10.

 

Though I don't have either, this discussion is helping dramatically with my decision making .
From experience I know that light guns with heavy calibers are uncomfortable to shoot, compared with heavier guns in the same caliber or greater .
How often you will practice with said weapon makes all the difference in the world to it's effectiveness in your hand.
On the subject of weight , that's about all that sold the gock , that and its popularity among police, but for the most part these guys got the same gun so they can share mags . and misery . and doing what every one else is doing.
IMO The weight was never an issue . When I back pack I don't pack light ,I anticipate the worst .
I shoot best when I don't have to concern my self ,even subconsciously with recoil .
The more critical the threat, the more important target acquisition is maintained .
This is especially important in weak/ non-prominent hand shooting.
If your not practicing with either hand , your cheating your self.
If you have to shoot with both hands your cheating your self . IMO
1911 is the better choice it seems.

 

Back when men were men and used the men's rest room,things were made out of steel,to last. People that were born in the middle 1960's were raised on plastic so they go with plastic,plastic things that were made to be replaced. So now we have people going to the wrong rest room and buying plastic things. The real men have not changed one bit,in guns or the right rest room. What kind of gun do you own,a1911 or a plastic play pretty?

 

@Ura-Ki "...Some specs! 180 gr round nose JHP @ 1340 fps and 660 pounds of energy. 200 gr JHP @ 1260 fps and 780 pounds. 220 gr jacketed soft point or hard cast lead @ 1210 and 830 pounds energy!... "
Whew! Those numbers are hard to argue with - in fact - you can't.

@Ura-Ki One last question, just to be clear, is not the .40 the same as a 10mm? If my math is correct, .40 works out to 10.16mm. I just want to ensure there are no differences, however minor, and we are comparing apple-to-apples here.
EDIT: I did some reading and now understand the difference btw the .40 and 10mm. I suppose the easiest way to explain it, if I got it right, is the same as a .38 special and .357 magnum. While you can shoot the .38 special ammo from a .357 magnum you are in trouble if you try to do the reverse being bullet size is okay but much hotter load. Perhaps picture worth thousand words...



@arleigh "Though I don't have either, this discussion is helping dramatically with my decision making."
Yes, me too, most definitely! It is very clear to me now that I indeed made a mistake in investing so much into the 9mms. It would break my heart to sell them so I will have to eat the cost, keep them for that rainy day we hope never comes and start acquiring the 10mm and/or .45.

@oldman11 "Back when men were men and used the men's rest room..."
Now, wait a minute OM11! Just because I shoot a plastic gun doesn't mean I am going to let you shove me into the women's bathroom. Geez, those Idaho gals would beat me to death! LOL! I guess it's time to go back into the closet and play with my plastic gun...Glocks? What Glocks? LOL!

 

Good news Bandit99, you can have your plastic fantastic AND have a 10 mm. GLOCK makes the G-20 and G-29 ( I think it is) so you can upgrade! Not sure on .45, but I know there are at least some options if .45 is more your speed!
Your correct on the interchange between 10 mm and .40, with a 10 mm, you can shoot .40 ( by changing recoil springs) but if you have just a .40, no go on the 10 mm!
No need to be rid of 9 mm, keep them as back up, and for cheep practice, or SHTF when ammo gets tight again. 9mm does have it's place when a person wants a very small pistol to keep in deep consealment, like I do with an ankle holster, or I can drop in a pocket and forget it's there. While Glock dosnt make a small and thin piece, there are plenty of options that do, and a person may have some trade options going forward! I usually opt for a Beretta Cougar for that role, or a highly modified Walther PPK, both loaded with 124 gr Remington Golden Saber hollow points!

 

One of the best reasons to make the switch to 10 mm is recoil management. They do kick hard, but it's liner, it comes strait back into your hand and keeps muzzle jump to a minimum. Combine that with the weight of a steel 1911 and it is comparable to a Beretta M-9 I'm felt recoil and muzzle rise. Then there is the cost of ammo, I am finally seeing manufactures embrace the 10 mm and the quality is up, and cost is going down! There there is also the option of changing recoil springs and shooting super cheep .40 short and week at a cost just a buck or two more per box of 9 mm!!!!! There is no excuse now for lack of practice! I have found PPU makes a full power 10 mm loading with a 180 gr8 JHP that sells for $20 a box, so I can actually practice with full power ammo, and even better, it's ammo that can also be used for carry! I ran some tests on it and found it runs consistently @1200 fps and the data says it should be making 600+ pounds of energy! SIG is also selling a really good FMJ 180 gr load that runs the same specs and cost per box, but because of the round nose, works especially well in un throated guns, ( like most stock 1911s) so there are options for good ammo at decent prices!
.45 ammo has also come way down in price, and again, no excuses for not practicing! There are a ton of really good defensive loads out there for the .45 and the prices are dropping, so a person can spend the time and coin to find the best loading for the needs!

 

Stupid question here.
Are you saying I can shoot .40 S&W through my Delta? Doesn't the 10mm head space off of case length like the .45ACP?
If I can that's kinda cool as I have 5k of once fired .40 brass and no .40 weapon.

I load the 180gn Speer Gold Dot for my 10mm currently and the 200 gn for the .45ACP. Practice 45 is the 200gn SWC.

 

10mm Auto - Wikipedia

The big word is CAN instead of should. Yes you CAN shoot .40 S&W in a 10 mm Semi-auto, but as both rounds headspace on the case mouth the .40 S&W will be held in only by the extractor. (Not the same as a 38-357 in a revolver that indexes on the rim)
As to this conversation making decisions, just decide to fondle and test drive prior to purchase.

Now about test driving: as always with an unknown pistol load one and ensure it's done. Then load two and ensure it stops between rounds. Now when you fill that first mag, mark your accuracy. When it comes time to burn that second mag make sure someone has a stopwatch on you to duplicate that accuracy.

Prior to jumping supersonic: just consider what that supersonic blast is going to due to your nervous system when it registers within a confined room without hearing protection! You just can't conceive how many DAY SHOOTERS can't hit squat after I've done a little rapid fire on an enclosed range with even a .44 Mag Revolver.
Bottom Line: If you aren't shooting clean, efficient timed rounds with a .45 ACP, don't increase the amount of time, effort, and skill required to Master even more demanding calibers. JMHO.

 

Perhaps this is the time that I should start another thread. Ura-Ki, I shall Grant you title as Master, but I want to let others have OJT to understand what needs to be performed on Battlefields that they haven't been directed to perform such deeds on. Wink, nod. I could expend every round on your chest-plate and never take you out of the fight. So just what is it that the folks that haven't been need to accomplish to take out those that have returned?

The challenge, Glock, 1911, or anything else: I've been told I'm an A-hole so here is just a requirement that you can perform to rate yourself against America's actual troops.

The target: UPC 026285511666.

This is a 50 foot small bore rifle target, but we are going to use it at 15 Yards against a standard vest wearing TANGO. Use the center circle to ZERO your sidearm. You now have ten targets that equate to the area between the eyebrows that will drop a TANGO. Start with your favorite .22 LR. Put 10 rounds into the remaining 10 Targets at only 15 yards. Now step up to your favorite 9 mm. (or 9 mm NATO) Put all 10 rounds into the black of all ten remaining targets at only 15 yards. Now let's step up to your favorite .45 ACP, 10 of ten inside the black? Now it's time to put 10 of 10 in the same target at the same range with the 10 mm. These are the actual yearly qualifications that Ura-Ki and folks in my NEC's had to meet in order to stay within the program. (They are like 1% of 1% of all the folks in America.) So prior to basing your selections on our testimony, complete the challenge and determine how capable you are of meeting the minimum specifications.) Ain't nothing but a thing!

 

Besides that...where am I going to get my hands on a .45 ACP and a 10mm? I hope I can rent them but we'll see... I will see if I can do as you ask with my 9mm.

But, why would you have to qualify with different caliber side arms or are you just making a point?

 

I think what he is getting at is competence with what ever chosen side arm you might choose ( or rent) to see how it stacks up against others! It's a good idea if your considering a change in caliber to actually see if it's something you can handle shooting effectively and accurately! While the test is a bit on the tedious side, its speed and accuracy your after! I bet old dude could give us youngsters a good schoolin too!!!!

 

Sorry for the thread drift. Should've PMed the question, but got lazy.

 

Actually, a big problem in landfills is that plastic never goes away, unlike steel. Dismissing the Glock because it is made of polymer is short sighted. This is indeed the plastic age, with low cost plastics making life affordable (remember wooden cabinet televisions?). I own a Llama .45 and a Springfield Armory .45. Both great weapons. Both have had failures (the Llama easily has 20k rounds fired through it). I also own a Glock 21SF with at least that many rounds, many being hot hand loads, and have yet to have a failure. Yeah, I was born in '64, so I find I embrace new technology rather than dismiss it. I really hope I never reach a point where I automatically dislike something because "it ain't the way we useta do it" <spitting tobacco juice>

 

As a follow up, prior to switching from or too a 1911 or from or too a Glock 21SF, hit the range and see how your performance is effected with either the platform and/or the caliber. There may be some calibers that work better in your hand with each platform. (ie, a 9 mm 1911 is far easier to control than any of Glocks 9 mm offerings, but the 21SF & 1911 .45 ACP have almost identical times & scores.)

 

Not really... if ya look back at the beginning the question was asked... OR your opinion on your fav...

looks to me like it's still on track... and there is a great deal of info gettin put out!

 

Thank You OldDude49! So as it is assumed "With your blessing", it's time "To get to the Crux of the Biscuit" (to quote Frank Zappa)
I did put in a bottom line. I did include what seems to be a tedious task, on what those that follow up on this "Challenge" may consider an impossibly small target. But like "William Tell" there is only one way to skewer "THE APPLE". This is the only reliable method of securing a "One Shot Stop" with any sidearm. (as Ura-Ki has so eloquently stated "There is no replacement for {horsepower} cubic inch displacement ) But the folks reading this NEED TO PROVE IT ON THE RANGE. All metal 1911 or Glock Fantastic Plastic, in the end it's all about your ability (competence) to deliver a fatal shot with which ever platform you are sporting.
So what sidearm in YOUR HAND can deliver that fatal blow? This is only a range proven effect. It's not what I or others have proven to due, it's all about what you are capable of performing with the sidearm (1911 or Glock) in your proven caliber of choice that you should carry? If you can't best the tedious challenge I've described, with whatever sidearm you have chosen, perhaps it's time to reevaluate what you are carting? In the end, if you can't do the deed on a static target what makes you believe that you SHALL DO THE DEED on a live mobile target?????????

Now typical FIXED SIGHT SERVICE SIDEARMS aren't specifically tailored to your specialty sidearms. But I think you should be able to have an "ENHANCED PERFORMANCE" with a sidearm tailored specifically to you. Once you have MASTERED the "CHALLENGE" that I've laid out with your sidearm of choice (1911 or Fantastic Plastic) regardless of preference, then you can attempt the same level of competence on a real moving shooting target.
AT NO TIME DID I SAY THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE EASY!

If at anytime Y'all find this challenge to be unexceptionable, PLEASE rethink the sidearm you intend to carry!

Okay, all kidding aside. I was tasked with goals for 100 rounds out of my primary weapon 365 days a year. I was only tasked with this simple challenge 52 times a year. (100 rounds from my secondary every week) I was only required to pass this proficiency test on a quarterly basis under external supervision. Y'all asked for real, I'm not going to monitor Y'all while your attempting it. I'm just gonna tell Y'all it ain't easy. JMHO.

 

Service grade or upgrade? How much range time will need to be expended to become/stay proficient?
A little eye candy always helps.