1. We are sorrowed to report that one of the Founding Members has passed on. Dee (Righthand) is well remembered as contributing much to the operation of SurvivalMonkey, and is already greatly missed. Little lady, big person.

Let there be light!

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by chelloveck, Feb 9, 2014.


  1. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    "Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons." - General Douglas MacArthur
     
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  2. DarkLight

    DarkLight Live Long and Prosper - On Hiatus Site Supporter

    I'll see your puny pen (and marginally better automatic weapons, considering) and raise you "Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure!"

    Write your way outta THAT one!
     
  3. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I see your orbiter, and raise you gravity. Gravity sucks.;)
     
  4. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    To be Truthful...... Only a Gravity Well, "SUCKS" ..... Gravity just Pulls.....
     
  5. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine The Plumber Founding Member

    I could have as easily asked Falcon15 if he was rocking the boat. However, I do not have much rapport him. I was not picking sides and putting up an ideological wall.

    Being one that is the middle of the debate, I see narrow mindedness on both sides of the fence and an inability to accept that maybe, just maybe, everything they thought might be true, is not so.

    It seems both sides have a tendency to adhere to dogmatic points of view, rather than look at things with a more open mind. Both sides are guilty of ruining careers, when others have gone against the dogmatic point of view of their side.

    I do not believe that we evolved from apes. I do believe that we have evolved/mutated as a species.

    nor do I believe the Earth is only 10,000 yrs. old. More on that when I have more time.
     
  6. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Narrow mindedness and adhering to a dogmatic point of view is fine if you're right!;)

    Just kidding,

    Seriously though, I find that the certainty and the unshakable conviction of true Christians is highly irritating to many when involved in a debate. And I'm talking about the true spirit filled people of faith, not the pew warmers or those who go to church to get spoon fed their beliefs. Those who have met the boss and have no doubt that he exists.

    And I am talking about the sure knowledge that there is a creator God and he is involved and concerned with the lives of his creation. That is faith, anything else other than that is religion. And those of faith did not just decide to accept this theory or that theory, we did not just wake up and say today I am going to become a Christian. It is an internal knowledge, the sure and unshakable knowledge that we are created and have met our creator. To ask us to deny that or to even entertain the idea of something different is equivalent to asking someone else to just admit the possibility that you can live without oxygen, or that the sun is really just a figment of your imagination.
    It is, and we know it is, and it is truth, and not our truth, but the truth and some just can't understand that sureness, that unshakable certainty.

    One reason I like to debate with atheists is to point out the hypocrisy of their arguments. They insist that there is no evidence for creationism or for a creator and that if it isn't demonstrable and proven scientifically that it is not a valid theorem. Yet they promote theories and positions that are exactly that! They push an evolutionary doctrine that is neither demonstrable or scientifically proven.

    Another reason I love to debate with atheists is that if they do start to question their beliefs and do meet the creator they are the best evangelists in the kingdom of God! They have had years of evangelizing and proselytizing experience in their former faith and religion. And yes atheism is a religion, it is a faith based doctrine. No matter how they try to deny the fact. Atheists by definition are people of faith, they have a faith in a dogma, in a belief set that they zealously preach and defend.

    If chelly ever sees the light he would be the greatest evangelist since Billy Graham!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
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  7. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Frankly, I find anyone who claims to KNOW highly irritating. All is belief until you cross over and find out. Believers and unbelievers both can compile reams of scientific and pseudo-scientific arguments to back up their beliefs, but it is ultimately their BELIEFS that they are arguing.

    Christian apologists and non-Christians alike have had centuries to marshal their arguments, and develop their philosophical positions, and neither side is going to convince the other. I may point out the fallacy of an argument of a Christian, or of an Atheist, but I can no more disprove his beliefs than he can prove them. Both can present information that supports their BELIEFS, usually by ignoring even more information that conflicts with their BELIEFS, but it is ultimately a futile argument.

    Just my two and three quarters cents.
     
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    In my mind, the argument is as useful as counting the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.
     
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  9. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    That would depend upon the size of the pin, the size of the angel, and weather it is slow dancing, or jitter- bugging. And does that include the band if they don't dance? Do angel wallflowers count? (Inquiring minds want to know, and all.....);)
     
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  10. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I hate to bring up the obvious, but what if the Answer is NONE? Where did the idea that Angels are small, to tiny, come from? All the Angels I read about in the Old, and New, Testament, were normal Human Sized, and just Glorified, in a few cases.. ..... Y Angels MV....
     
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  11. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    ....and for all you or I know, the pin could be used to display worlds like butterflies in a giant collection.;)
    The parameters of the experiment have not yet been property set.
     
  12. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    BT...unless the terms "angels","dancing on", "head of a pin" are adequately defined, any debate on the subject may be fraught with argument at cross purposes, and arguments based on false assumptions. Yes...angels in the Bible are described as normal sized (whatever that may mean) but are angels material, natural entities, and do angels occupy space and time in our dimension/universe as humans do?...or, are angels some kind of holy holograms of pure spirit that can be superimposed one upon another infinitely, like some vector graphic CGI special effect?

    As for myself....I'm inclined to think that
    Wikipedia says it! ... I believe it! ... That settles it!! :D

    No...I actually don't believe everything that Wikipedia says, but just parodying what some say of the Bible, as a debate stopper.

    I think Kellory's comments are very apropos to theological debate.... inquiring minds would like to know.
     
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  13. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    :lol: See how easy it is to jostle the jug into frothing? Gad how I love it here ---
     
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  14. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I'm glad you aren't taking anything seriously in this thread, nobody else seems to be...including myself,....hope you didn't get much latte on your keyboard ;)
     
  15. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    No, it is the Diet Dr Pepper out the Nose, that got me......
     
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  16. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Oh man....that has to sting.
     
  17. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine The Plumber Founding Member

    Titus 1:10-11,13,

    “For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers ... Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake ... Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith.”
    .
    .
    .
    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  18. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine The Plumber Founding Member

    Revelation 12:9

    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    .
    .
    .
     
  19. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Yes, there are.
    Are you extending a rebuke? If so why, and on what point? As for Answers in Genesis, they are subverting nothing, teaching the BIBLE as it should be taught, the inerrant, infallible word of God, and they are a not for profit. No one is doing this to get rich. Sooo...
     
  20. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Yes, in Revelation, which is a DREAM, there is much symbolism, not actuality. This is where discernment and hermeneutics I spoke of before come in to play. Revelation has much in it that must be interpreted. It is not literal on many points.
     
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