Lets Talk About Refrigerators.

Discussion in 'Off Grid Living' started by Kingfish, Jul 23, 2012.


  1. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Its not that bad for a 1994 chest freezer. Im off to test a couple of new ones today and see what they start and run at. If the start amps and run amps are lower Ill be switching it out for a new one. I am sure the refrigerator is going down the road as that thing runs all the time and its a wreck to boot. W e will be changing that one first. Our power company is picking up old frig and freezers and giving 150.00 bucks in credit if you buy new energy efficient ones. We will be taking advantage of this deal as well. Im excited as we are getting closer to buying our batteries and inverter.
     
  2. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    Start and run amps are OK to know when sizing inverters, for example....but the thing you REALLY want to know is the total KW/hours over a given period of time to do a comparison.....and that can be affected by a variety of things, such as:

    Type of construction/condition of the freezer ( upright/chest, type and amount of insulation, door gasket condition, condenser coils clean IF external,etc )

    How full it is.

    How many times you open/close

    Temperature of the area the freezer is located.

    How much in need of a defrost ? ( Heavy ice buildup on the interior coils causes them to run more as the ice act like an insulator ).

    Does it have auto-defrost.....real energy hog.
     
    Guit_fishN likes this.
  3. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    My trip to the appliance stores was an eye opener. Kenmore no longer shines in my book. The best refrigerator I found was a whirlpool tier III level energy star. This is the highest rating for energy conservation I can find in any local store. Price 799.00 with 10% off and free delivery and hook up comes with an ice maker. 21 cubic feet with top freezer. Start up amps were 2.1 amps and running amps varied from .71 to .88 so it draws only 2 amps to start and less then an amp while running. The unit is rated at 364 kwh per year. That was the best I could find. We are going to buy this unit along with a real miser of a deep freeze. We had to add a hundred for stainless steel so its around 800.00 with the 10% off. That is pretty low running amp if you ask me.
     
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    There is a trade off with amps vs. running time Higher amps corresponds to shorter run times and vice versa. You can make use of this if your gennie run time is critical. One thing needs looked at: If it is noisy, longer runs makes less good in my mind, at least.
     
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    364 KWH/Year is 1 KWH a day spread out over 24 Hours, looks like 41.6 WHours
    At 120 Vac that is .024 Amps, and if your Inverter is 90% Efficient then:
    .26 AmpHours on a 12 Vdc Bank
    .13 AmpHours on a 24 Vdc Bank
    .065 AmpHours on a 48Vdc Bank

    Of course these are Constant Draw Figures, for a cycling system, but that is what the average is going to be over time.
    Looks like that isn't going to be a really big load for any kind of Solar Recharge System, even on a cloudy day.
    Many Battery Banks have a bigger Self Discharge Rate than that....
     
  6. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I metered and listened to around 30 refrigerators and I can tell you I was impressed with this whirlpool. It was very very quiet and it ramps up to the 2.1 and ramps down to the run amps. Very smooth operation. Tier three level of energy star rating which considered top short of off grid stuff. The Kenmore's were loud and the meter jumped around a lot on several models telling me they have problems with compressors. I learned that Kenmore no longer makes their own units and for year they were made by Whirlpool. Now they go to the low bidder. Frigidaire were noisy and a lot like the Kenmores so I think that is who is making them. The Freezer I checked was another Whirlpool and it is just a few inches smaller then the one we have now. It started at .2 amps even and ran a .7 to .9 amps. Again very nice. KF
     
  7. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Purchased the two Whirlpool appliances . My wife opted for a better stainless so the price went up a bit and we bought extended warranty. Ended up being 1700.00 both both with taxes. Not too bad.. Total combined start if they both started at exactly the same time would be just 4.2 amps total running amps while cooling will be under 2 amps. The start amps last for just a couple of seconds. I am sure a 2500 watt inverter will give us all the power we need. That will be the next purchase, figuring in a charger/charge controller etc is the next step. We are alos switching to LED LIGHTING.
     
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I assume you've already run a few LED lamps for experiments. The hue is different, and may not suit everyone. They are getting better ---
     
  9. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Not yet , going to buy one and try it. Tested coffee maker just now , 7.4 amps while brewing and even sips .09 amps just plugged in for the clock. We will be making coffee another way for sure. I am sure we can get used to the different hue. If not there are always the oil lamps:D
     
  10. Nadja

    Nadja RIP 3-11-2013 Forum Leader

    Go to the old fashined percolater on top of the stove/ Like it better anyway. No power loss at all. Instead of the led's you may want to also take a look at the compact floursancent. That is all I use and they work pretty good and last almost forever
     
  11. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Hey Nadja, My father in law just borrowed one of my Kill a Watt meters. ha ha ha glad I got two of them. Those things are like christmas. I am seeing a lot of money flying out my wiondows right now. I will be shaving lots of dollar off our light bill next month. They delivered the new energy Star Freezer today. 2.1 amps to start for under 2 seconds then it drops to about .74 amps while its running. Awesome little 15 cf freezer. KF
     
    hank2222 likes this.
  12. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Cant do stove top as the stove is electric as well. I'm going shopping for an energy efficient electric coffee maker. There must be better ones then we have now. Ours was just a cheapo Walmart china one. I have the little florescent lights now . They are fine but Im told the LED lights use even less power. You created a monster Nadja. Im going for the gold in lower energy use. ha ha ha .
     
    hank2222 likes this.
  13. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    There are Led's, and there are are LED'S !!

    If you have any recessed lights, you can get Cree brand LR-6 bulbs to replace them. 10.5 watts and knock your eyeballs out BRIGHT. No odd 'hue' to them, as they are in the 3000k temp range for true, white light.

    Bulb is pricey at about 60 bucks, but they last 50,000 hrs, and when combined with the energy savings, makes it the cheapest bulb on the market.

    We replace 6 floresent tube lights in our kitchen ( 6 x 40w...240w ) with 8 of the Cree lights ( 84w ) and one set of undercounter Led ( 100w ) that we use part time, and have tons more light than before.

    ry%3D400
    ry%3D400 ry%3D400
     
    Cruisin Sloth, melbo and hank2222 like this.
  14. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Andy, I went with Cree can lights in my new house. Wasn't cheap when replacing 59 lights but the Cree's actually passed the wife test. She liked the light better than the incandescents.

    Home Depot here had them for $39 @ and some (not mine) local power companies had a $20 rebate on them, each.

    My wife looked at me like I was an absolute loon when I came home with $2500+ in light bulbs LOL but she also had the same look when I bought Silver @ $6/oz.

    I look at this like I look at solar - it's not about the payback, its about the prepay. If I have and can afford it now, why not prepay and have no or low bills for the next 20 years.
     
    BTPost likes this.
  15. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Melbo, That is the same look I got from Alaskachick when we moved up here, and I bought an Inverter and batteries, for the Cabin.... Now she couldn't do without them....
     
  16. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    39 bucks ! Wow.....what a deal ! I paid close to 80 for mine couple years ago.....goes to show you, just wait a while on stuff when it first comes out.

    For those not familiar with them, to call them a "bulb" is sort of like comparing a Yugo to a 1 ton Dodge 4x4 truck and call it "transportation".....ahahahahaaaa.....

    Here's what they look like:

    869_86f4ca51a8b301bd9e18bcf7704ed108216db7c2_original_x_323_1326890507.
    The "unit" weighs couple pounds each, massive aluminum finned housing, and comes as a sealed unit complete with trim ring. Takes a full sized can up in the ceiling ( no "mini" cans ), then you remove the "L" bracket in the can that positions a normal bulb for depth and has the porcelin bulb socket, screw the socket on the Cree unit, flip the 3 tabs out and shove the unit up into the can until the trim ring is flush with the ceiling level.
    869_86f4ca51a8b301bd9e18bcf7704ed108216db7c2_original_x_323_1326890507. 869_86f4ca51a8b301bd9e18bcf7704ed108216db7c2_original_x_323_1326890507.
     
  17. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Yep. That be them.
    They actually fit the ceiling tighter than the old trim rings that they replaced.

    Extra bonus is that they are dimmable at all levels down to around 10% even with el cheapo dimmers.
     
  18. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Nice Kitchen , So the toaster on the counter !! Solar driven ?
    I bet that eats the difference of the bulbs ..
    I too like toast & coffee , Looking for a decent
    stainless stovetop percolator for the Gas stove.
    Toast I can see flames from the ones we had back in the 50's .

    Sloth

    Edit add, I see from another post that your Grid-tied , Im guessing that the toast is forgone till grid-powers back on .
     
  19. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

  20. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    KF... It is just not feasible to build an electric Coffee Pot, that doesn't draw at least 1Kw.... as to brew a good cup, you need to boil the water and perk it thru the grounds in short time, and that takes AMPs. Very few folks will take the time to spend an hour or two waiting to boil water to brew their Morning Cup. ......
     
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