Let's talk Ethanol

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by azrancher, Dec 29, 2014.

  1. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    OK, we know the problem with storing gasoline is the 15% ethanol that is added to it.

    The ethanol absorbs water.

    Water doesn't burn, and plays havoc with 2 cycle engines.

    What if... we were to pour the gas that we had stored without the PRI-G into a 5 gallon carboy, let it settle out and just syphon off the gas, leaving the ethanol-water mixture?

    Mindgrinder likes this.
  2. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    If you are talking about premix for 2 strokes you also have stratification caused by the water and oil mixing. I've tried most fuel preservatives and for my small engines and boat motors I just gave up on pump regular and use only premium and even then I use stabilisers and just mix what I need at the time.But after re reading your post that could work as well.
    Mindgrinder and Pax Mentis like this.
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Nope, Ethanol and Gasoline are soluble in each other... Water is soluble in the Ethanol. There is NO WAY to extract the Ethanol from the Gasoline, without doing a Distillation of the product. HOWEVER, there is a perfectly reasonable, and acceptable, solution, that will remove 100% of the water from the product. Put it in a 5USG Bucket with a Tight LID, and stick it in your Freezer, that is at least 20F, or below, and leave it for a couple of days. The water will Freeze out of solution, and the Ice will form on the bottom of the Bucket.... Then pour off the Gasoline Product, and throw out the Ice, and Repeat, till you have gone thru all your suspected Watered product. In my Tank Farm, I have multiple 20KUSG Gasoline Tanks. They collect condensation Water, year-round. We tap the water off weekly in the summer, but in the winter I have no problems with it because the water just Freezes in the bottom of the Tanks, till it warms up in the spring. We also have NO Ethanol in our Gasoline here in Alaska. We have a specific Exemption from the EPA, due to Uncle Teddy (Stevens RIP) making the case that it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE, to force the Fuel Distribution System to build Double the Number of Gasoline Tanks, at every Distribution Point in the State, to accommodate the amount of Gasoline that goes into Aviation Services, which by FAA Mandate can have ZERO Ethanol in it. So, we have just two Grades of Gasoline here. 80/87 and 100LL, PERIOD. Since I do NOT sell AvGas, I only have 80/87 in my Tank Farm, and NO Ethanolized Product.
  4. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Won't this leave a fuel smell in the freezer?
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  5. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Dedicated freezer takes care of that... but, that's a couple hundred green ones. Cheaper to kill weeds with the 5 gallons of water tainted fuel or use it to start your camp fire and go buy a new fiver when you need it. It would be a good solution if isolated and stuck with water contaminated fuel, though,
    Mindgrinder and Tully Mars like this.
  6. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Kinda what I was thinking, having a dedicated freezer. Which I could see being worth while PSHTF and no longer a fuel supply but plenty of freezers in deserted zombie homes.;)
    Mindgrinder and Dunerunner like this.
  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Gotta have some electricity for those freezers. Gas generators? :D
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  8. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Like the ones in a shed out back with those funny looking panels on the roof.;)
    Mindgrinder and Dunerunner like this.
  9. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I don't know how much smell would linger. If you want to remove the stink from something.... Freeze it.
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  10. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    So what happens to the Ethanol when it absorbs water? I don't see why I would need to freeze it if I can see the water level, I'm thinking a Glass Carboy like I ferment my beer in, you should be able to see the water level and just syphon out the gas.
    Mindgrinder and oldawg like this.
  11. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    You can't see the dissolved Water, only the water that is not in solution... And that water is what kills the Carbs on a Spark Engine, and blows out the Injectors on a Diesel engine....

    Also by cooling the Fuel to low Temps keeps them from out-Gassing of fumes, as much... Sealed buckets work best...
  12. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    You wouldn't happen to have a marina around you? They tend to have no ethanol gas.
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  13. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Seems you have several?

    Type in ethanol-free stations in Arizona
    Mindgrinder and Tully Mars like this.
  14. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    This is the route I took for my small engines. I don't have a lot of it stored and only use it for them. Here at least its quite a bit higher than reg unleaded.
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  15. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    No Marina's near by, no ethanol free stations within several hundred miles.
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  16. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Mindgrinder likes this.
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    So far as I know, that propensity to absorb water is only one of the problems with ethanol. The other, and maybe more significant, is that engines up 'till now, are not designed with 15% in mind and have parts and pieces in them that will be attacked chemically by concentrations above 10%. Most engine mfrs will not honor guarantees if it is shown that 15% was used and leads to failures. The industry, automotive and sports machine (bikes, quads, ATVs) alike, have gone on record as opposing allowing 15% to be sold randomly, since the consumer will not be adequately alert in all cases. (Especially since the various blends will be sold side by side, it'll really be too easy to screw up while refueling.) In the case of small tanks as in sports machines, esp. motorcycles, single hose delivery of multiple blends will not provide adequate dilution of the higher concentrations to reduce the concentration to acceptable levels for general use. It becomes a safety issue with bikes since a bad fuel can lead to catastrophic engine failures at speed.

    The same sort of thinking applies to folks that might fill their boat fuel tanks at the gas station to avoid the higher price of marine fuels. Who wants to lose the engine an hour offshore?
    Mindgrinder, Tully Mars and oldawg like this.
  18. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    *from the sidelines comedy*

    @azrancher "Dudes! I got water in my gas! Ideas?"
    @BTPost "Just freeze it and pour the good stuff off"
    @azrancher "Dude I'm in Arizona....i heard of that snow stuff..."
    @EveryoneElse - "You can get it corn-free somewhere damnit!"

  19. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson Monkey+++

  20. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    Thanks, that article was exactly what I was thinking, except that they add water to jump start the conversion process. Also good to know that it lowers the octane so start with premium.
    Homer Simpson likes this.
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