Making a garden in vacant area- advice needed

Discussion in 'The Green Patch' started by Motomom34, Mar 3, 2015.


  1. shaman

    shaman Monkey++

    I just wanted to add a big +1 for adding gypsum into clay.
    Around here, out in the 'Burbs, the builders always leave next to nothing in the way of topsoil. As a result, grass grows very poorly. I bought a house back in 1989 that had been built in 1963 and the owner had never been able to get grass to last through the summer. I put down gypsum and crushed limestone and overseeded, and had a lush lawn for the next 25 years.

    Here's another thing to do that has a big payoff over time. I used to take a third of my garden every year and dig down about 6 inches and spread it over the rest of the garden. Into that void, I piled my leaves, my grass clippings, all my organic waste and I'd let it sit over the winter. In the spring, I'd dig out another third of the garden and bury the compost and plant tomatoes, peppers, beans, pumpkins on top. By the time I dug up that third again in a few years, the compost layer was compacted to maybe a half-inch or less. Over time, the garden went from orange clay to dark friable humus.
     
  2. shaman

    shaman Monkey++

    I've got a bug-out place already. I don't do much horticulture there, because I can't be out there to water during the week, but I'm planning my escape. One technique I'm very interested in is hugelkultur. It is a German raised-bed technique. It's like the French way, except the wood is on the inside of the mound instead of around the outside.

    If I had the OP's situation, I would talk to a tree service and see about getting some hardwood limbs dropped off. Onto that, I'd pile all my leaves, grass, etc, and put the clay topsoil on top of that. The wood rots inside the mound and provides nitrogen after the first year. You get about a decade out of the resulting mound.

     
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  3. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Shaman, try the search box. Lots of info here on that topic.;)
     
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  4. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    @Mindgrinder & @kckndrgn you have both suggested putting chips in. In your opinions since this will be a new garden if I do all the prepping in the Spring would this be ready for planting next summer? I had hoped to have this plant-able by this year but do to the soil issues, I may have to wait a year.

    @Mindgrinder colloidal silver seems to kill the bad stuff in the soil. Would it help rid my broccoli plants of those nasty green worms? In your opinion?
     
  5. Hanzo

    Hanzo Monkey+++

  6. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Like making a compost pile? I have two large piles but they are of pine needles. We have very few leaves and I scoop them up by hand and cover my berries but I don't see much stuff to put in a compost pile.
     
  7. Hanzo

    Hanzo Monkey+++


    We put all our fruit and vegetable scraps from the kitchen into our compost pile.
     
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  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Chips will be good after two years, one maybe. This year's chips will be too "hot". Stir them in, not too densely.
     
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  9. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Compost material is where you find it.
    THINK Dumpster diving for a garden.

    Pine needles are fine for keeping the sun off or for keeping the the soil opened up. It is very poor in nutrients and not, as some might say, acidic after they are brown.

    Time to get that soil test set. Most garden plants like a PH of around 6.5. What's your PH?
     
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  10. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Unsure of my ph. Probably not good. Right now there is about 6" of snow in that area. So the plan seems to be test first then start amending.

    @Hanzo I cannot keep food outside. Bears are in the area and I try to discourage them from visiting.
     
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  11. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    If your PH is close then nitrogen can be added, do not purchase the typical 3 part garden fertilizer, unless you find that is what you need by the test. You will note that a good test set will also test for clay as well as sand etc.
     
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  12. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    Chips go ON TOP - not mixed in. If you cover say 10x10 square right now, check what the soil is like under the chips in a month...it might already be starting to loosen up. I'm gonna look into gypsum too.

    Silver - no idea aboot the worms. Apparently it can kill ringworm and tapeworm but we're talking entirely different things.
     
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  13. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    I buy chicken compost and bury it in an area that I will not use that season. Pine needles make for poor compost, it takes years for it to break down. Where I live the ground is sandy so I add tons of organic matter to hold the water. Vermiculite is cheap here and I use it in raised beds, between the vermiculite and compost that is used for mulching our garden soil holds the water well. I tried to shade parts of the garden from the afternoon sun, it can be brutal in the summer.
     
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  14. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    You didn't say how large the area is or how much you want to garden so I'm going to make a couple of suggestions without getting into details of clay soil and pine needles and what a difficult combo they are to start a garden in
    1) small area try a 'key hole garden', you compost and grow in the same bed. they do take a bit of set up and are amazingly productive for a small area
    2) if you have a larger area and have hay and straw farmers in your area, you can usually talk to them and get them to give you old moldy straw and alfalfa or hay for free if you haul it off. The 1st year you want to till the straw into the soil to break up the clay. Subsequent years just lay the straw and hay on top of your garden... voila no weeding and automatic fertilizer from straw and hay, just lay it down in mats. (I'm a huge fan of Ruth Stout, the Naked Gardener she uses this method)
     
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  15. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    @Ganado I would say it is a small area. Right now I have 2 4X 8 planter boxes and this area is double that. I will google Key hole garden.
     
  16. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    This link has several you tube video's on key hole gardens
     
  17. laurin

    laurin Once a Bubblehead...

    I have been doing research on this topic because the homestead that we are buying has a very strong layer of clay mixed with wonderful rocks. This is one of the articles that I have saved and just thought I would share it. It is about Greensand...

    What Is Greensand: Tips For Using Glauconite Greensand In Gardens

    By Bonnie L. Grant

    Soil improvements are necessary for rich, organic soil that percolates well and provides bountiful nutrients to your garden plants. Greensand soil supplement is beneficial for improving the mineral content of your soil. What is greensand? Greensand is a natural mineral harvested from ancient ocean floors. It is widely available at many of the better nursery centers. The high quantity of minerals gives the gritty mix a greenish color and its name.

    What is Greensand?

    Oceans once covered many areas of the earth. As the seas receded, they left behind nutrient-rich marine beds (these deposits harden into layers of minerals) where rich sediment is harvested from the sandy rock for garden soil amendment.

    Greensand fertilizer is a rich source of glauconite, which is high in iron [1], potassium [2] and magnesium [3]. These components are all important to good plant health. It also helps loosen soil, improve moisture retention, soften hard water, and increase root growth. Greensand soil supplement has been marked to over 100 years but has been used for centuries.

    Using Glauconite Greensand

    Greensand provides a slow and gentle release of minerals, which protects plants from the classic root burn that many stronger fertilizers can cause. Using glauconite greensand as a soil conditioner provides a gentle source of potassium in a 0-0-3 ratio. It can contain up to thirty different trace minerals, all of which enrich the soil and are easy for plants to uptake.

    One of the biggest benefits of greensand is its ability to break up clay soils [4], which increases drainage and allows oxygen into the soil. The exact amounts of greensand garden application will vary depending upon what manufacturer produces the compound. Some manufacturers will add sand to the mixture, which may impact the strength of the product. The condition of your soil will also dictate how much greensand fertilizer is necessary for maximum effectiveness.

    Greensand Garden Application Method

    Greensand must be broken down in soil and is not water soluble. As a general rule, mix 2 cups into the soil around each plant or tree. For broadcast application, the average rate is 50 to 100 pounds per 1,000 feet of soil.

    The product is organically certified and the green color from the glauconite helps absorb sun and warm soils earlier in spring. The gritty texture is able to soak up more moisture than garden sand and conserve it for plant roots.

    Greensand soil supplement is easy to use and gentle for even the most sensitive plants. Apply in early spring as either a soil amendment or simply a good all purpose fertilizer.
     
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  18. PapaGrune

    PapaGrune Inside the firestorm

    I would think almost any of the Agricultural Extension Agents would analyze your soil for free. They do almost anything like that for free in Texas. Also maybe try the Soil and Conservation Department that the Feds have.

    I have used gypsum, newspaper, most forms of manure on my gardens. I will not pay for elephant dung. lol which they sell. I mix yard clippings, grass and most kitchen scraps, except meat in the pile too. I have the pile where I can flip it into too so it will rotate. Newspaper is cheap or free.. Put it down in the growing season as sheets to help with weed control. I am going to start growing a garden again but I think I will shred the paper before putting in the compost pile. Years ago I had top soil delivered to my house I had then, which worked great back then
     
  19. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    I get more out of my garden than just food....peace...therapy...love...dog and cat sun time....and conversations with my sky box city dwelling coworkers.
     
  20. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    I have many vacant area's You are welcome to make a garden on them
     
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