Maybe it's time for a new type of class action lawsuit?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by OldDude49, Aug 4, 2017.


  1. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

  2. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I'm doubtful the plaintiff has much of a case....anyone making donations to the GOP or the Dems on the basis that either party will actually deliver on their campaign promises, suffer from the same kind of diminished capacity of reasoning that many gamblers seem to exhibit when they squander their money, in the vain belief that their lucky numbers will come up.

    There's a plaintiff who is like to be throwing good money after bad....perhaps the plaintiff's reward will be to have costs awarded against him when the law suit fails.

    Mr Heghmann would be better off punting on the trifecta at the 3rd race at the Hialeah, than punting on a Republican Bill getting up, while there is a TRump administration in office.
     
  3. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    I wonder if this could be considered a verbal contract ?
     
  4. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    The biggest problem I can see is the waste of many millions (more!) in court costs, and any payout is going to be from taxes...in other words, he'd be hurting every taxpayer.

    And what is this idiot thinking? Sue or charge with fraud, but quit muddying the waters. Most jurists have enough trouble deciding if they want latte or espresso, and he wants them to decide two issues at once?
     
    Tully Mars and chelloveck like this.
  5. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    All valid points... still how do you get through to em?

    I've slowly come to hold the opinion they are actually the same party now...

    and you and I no longer have any real say in much of anything...

    been watchin em for years now... seems more like a dog n pony show for the plebs...

    so not sure there is a way to get through to em... cause they don't really listen anymore... ?

    but thinkin on it recall Mark Twain sayin something similar... ?

    they just seem to do what their told...?
     
    Tully Mars likes this.
  6. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    Chell, Tech,
    You guys are missing the point. It doesn't matter if he wins $ in court or not. That ain't the goal here.
     
    OldDude49 likes this.
  7. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    yep...
     
  8. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I don't think that Heghmann is relying on Tort Law for his suit....he is going for racketeering / RICO: I'm not sure what grounds would have legal legs to stand on, given that there is a long history of political parties receiving donations, and not delivering on their election platform promises / intentions....which probably constitutes recreation gambling if anything...unless one is a professional lobbyist, in which case, one is a professional gambler suffering from the delusion that political parties actually honour their promisesRacketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - Wikipedia Just as an interesting factoid aside, Donald Trump was sued under RICO laws... (Over allegations of fraud at Trump University....Trump settled with no admissions....and TRump never settles, so he says [LMAO][lolol]:lol:[ROFL]) Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - Wikipedia

    My guess is that the lawsuit will be thrown out of court as a frivolous lawsuit. A drug addict might just as well sue his supplier, having paid top dollar for heroin being claimed to be '"good $h!t",but turning out to be mostly cut with worthless baking powder....Caveat Emptor, Mr Heghmann....caveat emptor!

    Be a big, influential special interest group with big bags of money, or influence over significant blocks of voters in critical / swing electorates.

    No they are not the same party, they just operate in similar ways. Both parties have constituencies that are particular to each party, and some that overlap both parties. Occasionally they will cooperate with each other on issues that are of mutual benefit....I believe they call that bi-partisanship. ;)

    As individuals, probably minimal....as part of a collective...the say can be somewhat more influential.

    More like featherbedding, and gravy train riding...just that they are usually so shameless about it, I doubt that they very much bother about a dog and pony show pretence about it anymore.

    Did they ever????

    Well, that's one conspiracy theory I guess. I think it more a case of doing whatever they believe to be in the party's best interests at the time. Of course there are players in both parties that go rogue, and do what they feel to be what their own personal conscience requires...therein lies the kind of unpredictability that makes politics semi interesting.
     
  9. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Ask Henry Bowman..

    You are exactly right.
     
    techsar likes this.
  10. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    Sorry Chell... I remember when the Dems wanted to give certain powers to klinton...

    reps said no way that was too much power... then they got bush in and proceeded to give him those powers...

    which where then used... or abused?... by the o and created the o years that we still live with...

    dog n pony show... both parties seem to want to take us to a one world/new order... gov

    do you remember the first bush tellin us about it in glowing terms?
     
  11. DarkLight

    DarkLight Live Long and Prosper - On Hiatus Site Supporter

    @chelloveck - You make a semi-valid point. The key here, from a legal standpoint, is that just because it's been going on for GENERATIONS and nobody has been caught or at least charged, tried and convicted of it, doesn't mean it's not "illegal" by the RICO definitions (or potentially some other definition). It's collusion to be sure and by the dictionary definition, conspiracy to commit as well as the commission of fraud, which are criminal offenses.

    "We've always done it this way" isn't a valid legal defense and unless you have the FBI on your side, intent hasn't been either. I have done zero research, but just from memory I know of no legal precedent that would absolve the fraudster, which is what it boils down to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  12. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    You are probably right....The point is, using the judicial system to grand stand grievances with the Republican party by use of vexatious litigation. Vexatious litigation - Wikipedia Unless Mr Heghmann can unequivocally demonstrate that The Republican Party has a prima facie case to answer for, under RICO legislation, and regulations. 109. RICO Charges | USAM | Department of Justice the lawsuit will probably be thrown out.
    ......................................................................................................................................................................................................

    The payout and any punitive damages would be borne by the defendant i.e., the Republican Party, if the judgement is found in favour of the plaintiff, which might financially destroy the Republican Party, which might not be such a bad thing. If the litigant fails in their suit, then, depending on the judge's 'judgement", Court costs may be awarded in part or whole against the plaintiff, in which case Mr Heghmann will probably enter into bankruptcy, and the unrecovered costs will be lost to the public purse.....which will hurt the taxpayer....which is why, if there is no real prospect of conviction under RICO law, the suit will probably be thrown out as frivolous. Mr Heghmann seems to have too much time on his hands.
    .............................................................................................................................................................................................................
    Mr Heghmann needs to prove the elements of the RICO crimes that he alleges the defendants have committed. Heghmann v. The Republican National Committee et al https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/GOP-FRAUD-SUIT.pdf

    http://bochettoandlentz.com/criminal-fraud-vs-civil-fraud-whats-difference/
    http://www.stimmel-law.com/en/articles/extortion-essential-elements-and-broader-reach-rico

    USC 18:1961
    Hmmmm......given that Mr Heghmann is allegedly a member of the Republican Party, suing the organisation that he is a member of, it seems a classic example of a Party being devoured by its own members....which if successful may seriously interfere with Mr Donald John Trump's re-election for 2020.....maan....go Heghmann, go.....Republican Party, burn baby burn!!!! :whistle: (y) :ROFLMAO: ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  13. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    Forget RICO, that is little more than a means to an ends. (Btw, regardless what happens this costs the taxpayers essentially nothing.)

    The main point is to communicate to the GOP in a way that truly gets their attention. The GOP pandered to the conservative base to get elected then ignored those constituents and the promises the Republicans made to them for 7 years. This suit conveys the level of betrayal that the base feels was perpetrated. You can pretty much bet the GOP are getting e-mails and letters supporting Heghmann. The goal is to cause the GOP leadership behind closed doors say, "Holly crap, we got to do something or kiss some of the next round of primary or even general re-elections goodbye. Think Tea Party on steroids." Get just 27 Tea Party Republicans in the Senate and Mitch McConnel could be out as majority leader and they are half way there.

    The biggest aspect of that communication will be the press. Talk about cost effective!! A $875 donation and a few hours of his time drafting the suit (remember Heghmann is a lawyer so this likely cost him nothing) and he garnered national headlines. The liberal press and hard conservative media channels will all enjoy covering this for completely different reasons assuring more attention few GOP lawmakers will totally dismiss or ignore for possibly months. Free PR carrying his message over and over and over.

    The secondary goal if Heghmann can get past a challenge to him having standing and past preliminary motions to dismiss, is to get to discovery. If he can get to discovery, then he can subpoena and depose. That is when the fun really begins. If the process gets close to discovery, the RNC will try to settle big time. I doubt he would settle, even for high 6 figures or more, access to internal docs and communications has a modest chance to be useful unseating RINO Republicans. That would be priceless to a principled conservative betrayed by his party. If he gets thru discovery, then I suspect he will withdraw his suit or settle and possibly at a low number too simply covering his costs and troubles. Lawyers generally understand that while retribution may feel good and might pad the wallet well, don't loose sight of the real goal. He likely doesn't want to destroy the RNC, just significantly change their behavior to be less progressive/liberal.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
    chelloveck likes this.
  14. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I like your reasoning, Airtime, but whether it resets the GOP back on its 'conservative' tracks remains to be seen...its just one more headache for the party machine, and the GOP legislators to have to sort out. All I'm thinking is that it will probably end up helping the Democrats if the law suit drags on into the lead up to the 2018 mid terms; particularly If the GOP is seen to be wrought by internecine warfare within the party and its donor supporters. It would be interesting if the GOP loses control of Congress in 2018...TRump's going to find it even more difficult to get his wish list of legislation to be passed than he seems to be experiencing with the GOP majorities in the present Congress and Senate.
     
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