Media: FBI/DHS Raid Michigan Militia

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Brokor, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Large FBI, Homeland Security Operation Targets Militias in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio

    From article:
    The Michigan Militia is making this response:
    My source indicated the following:
    Apparently, the right-wing religious extremists come in real handy for the NWO. Just like I have been warning people to distance themselves from the religious-political crowd, especially the right wing (Pat Robertson-ites) extremists (Neo-Cons) who serve to fuel this power base.

    The goal is to create the APPEARANCE of dangerous militias in order to promote justification (via the media especially) for cracking down on our REAL militias and gun owners nationwide. This is a well thought out, calculated plan -do NOT underestimate the potential invested in the religious mind.
  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Update: Fox News reports this afternoon that seven people have been arrested for allegedly selling pipe bombs in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana in connection with the federal raids. “The arrests and raids in Michigan and Indianapolis are related to alleged militia activity in the region, but are not related to international terrorism. There is not a current threat to the public, according to a law enforcement source.” Fox does not mention FBI activity in Ohio, covered below.
    An Ann Arbor, Michigan, website reports this afternoon that the people arrested in Michigan are from from a group named Hutaree, described as “a Christian-oriented militia group based in Lenawee County.”
    “Local Michigan militia member Jimmy Schiel said he was told five people were arrested – including one known member of Hutaree. Schiel said the five were reportedly arrested during a raid at a service in the Ann Arbor area for a Hutaree member who died recently. Schiel was told about eight Hutaree members were present. Schiel, who said he was invited but did not attend, spoke to a Hutaree member who was at the service, he said,” reports.
    The Hutaree website is here.
  3. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    This sounds A LOT like the Randy Weaver story. Remember, that was a sting based on a single shotgun being sawed an inch or two too short.

    They sold pipe bombs (which any idiot can make) to someone in the name of some Jihad??? Really???
  4. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    I have to concur with you on the above statement. It is very sad that I have been getting into more heated arguments with the above NeoCon religious-political types than discussions that I have had with a lot of Liberals, and what is really scary is that it is a lot eaiser to debate a Liberal than a NeoCon today.:rolleyes::rolleyes: Liberals will just walk away if they realize they can't win their arguments whereas the NeoCons have actually gotten into my face highly enraged and just start screamiming at me that I can not prove them wrong period.
  5. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    True. But to them that includes US.

    Your logic here is flawed.
    Whether it's Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker (who is back and ironically hawking survival supplies!) or even Robert Tilton - these guys are wacky no-doubt, but non-militant. They have nothing to do with this group.
    The first amendment guarantees our freedom to follow whomever or whatever we want regardless of how wacky. The second is given to us to enforce all the rest.
    Why would you distance yourself if that is what you believe? To save your hide from an unconstitutional government? To be politically correct in their eyes? That seems like a bit of a cave-in.
    It's not the religion they hate, but the guns and opposition. US.

    You are correct about that. They are trying to set up an image of the "domestic terrorist" in the public mind as the opening salvo as a campaign for gun control and against people like US.
    Nut cases do offer plenty of ammunition.
    Clinton did this successfully. This guy will have a harder time. His approval rating sucks. The economy sucks. Concealed carry laws have sprung up all over. 50 million more guns have come into the hands of Americans. Gun shows used to consist of mullets and cigarette smoke. Now you see moms pushing strollers.
  6. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    and I bet the liberals are going bat-**** crazy on their blogs right now.. "Right wing terrorists! Right wing terrorists! SEIZE ALL GUNS NOW!" .. great.. just great.
  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    That's my point exactly.

    Funny. Start by calling my "logic" flawed, but then you state a contradiction yourself. The two are inextricably linked. By religion. (and politics w/ Robertson) Savvy?
    Strawman. You cannot justify religious extremism and violence toward others by claiming moral superiority; this is the way of most hate-filled groups in a futile attempt to gain support for their own cause. You are right about the constitution being what it is, but for the same reason religion is kept separated from politics, religion is the culprit being exercised in this scenario. The thing you probably refuse to accept is that the right wing religious crowd is quite controllable and easily rests under the arm of the cult of personality created to foster false flag ops.
    I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that not a single Christian would want to have a smear on their religion if some radical extremists in Michigan decided to start selling pipe bombs to eradicate the "evil" Muslims of the world....but it looks like that is exactly what may have transpired.

    This is not the debate. I never said that the government "hates" religion. I simply stated (and implied) that it is a very powerful tool for control. I do not know if this is your own machinations and the way you think, or a tactful response to avert the issue, but my point is quite clear and does not shear off into several directions as yours tends to. I am trying to understand your reasoning. I will not call your opinions illogical, but I do think that they are biased. Religion can become a tool for control, and this single occurrence is proof beyond doubt. I will not assault religion itself, as I am used to doing; out of respect for many here who hold their beliefs so strongly -but the point of argument is not what you may believe personally so much as what many choose to believe as a collective that becomes the issue. Furthermore, the way these groups of people decide to act upon their beliefs is central to this discussion. This includes their constitutional adherence and motives guided by patriotism, meshed with strong religious conviction often accompanied by quite possibly the greatest conspiracy theory of all: the end times. If you cannot connect the dots...I couldn't possibly draw a clearer picture, friend.

    Take it easy. I'm not bashing religion -just pointing out how it is being used to break down our current (non-violent) resistance in the hopes to cut off our ability to resist when it may become necessary to do so. We, the People clearly outnumber the Tyrants, and the fastest way for them to erode our ability to shoot, move, and communicate is to foster support for their own agenda. If things keep heading in the direction they are, in no time we will have the REAL militias lumped into the same category as the religious extremist militant groups. Then, it's just another day in Waco.

    HUTATREE has no ties with the Michigan militia.
  8. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Another update from CNN: LINK TO ARTICLE

    (bold emphasis is mine)
    My source tells me that they distanced themselves for obvious reasons. The media still tried to make the connection, and will continue to mention both the extremist religious group, Hutatree with the Michigan Militia.

    Brace yourselves folks. We will probably see more of this develop.
  9. ralph

    ralph Monkey+

    AP Sources: Militia suspected police-killing plot
    I am not real good with these computer things, but I found this on the web. Can't do links or anything. Now it is police killing plots not anti musluim stuff. I'm new, just learning about this high tech stuff
  10. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

  11. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Thanks for the article link, UGRev.

    These media reporters really need to get a clue.

    This show of force and what is going to happen to these Hutatree members is just an example of what is to come. This sends a clear message to all citizens: resistance is futile.

    Stand ready.
  12. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    A friend of mine posted this information recently, and I thought I would share:

    Something to ponder. Seriously.
  13. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    So the media incorrectly labels them again.. I think Anarchists is a sound fit.

    Brokor, that quote is disturbing..
  14. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    Brokor, if anyone is biased it is you. It was you who first attempted to make the connection between Pat Robertson, Neo-cons and this group.

    And there we go.

    If anything I said was confusing, let me spell it out.

    You incorrectly linked 2 different groups of people.

    Neo-cons/Pat Robertson followers are nothing more than religious activists types. Last time I checked, this activity was covered by the constitution. These folks are unfairly demonized in the media in an attempt to fracture the conservative movement. Sometimes they overstep the bounds of constitutionality in the legislation they try to pass. Shame on them. But they are non-violent.

    Then you have violent religious extremists of which the Hutaree group is an example.

    and here's where you incorrectly associate group 1 with group 2. That falls right into the trap set by the current regime to eliminate their opponents in religious right by associating them with militants. The powers that be thank you for that.

    My point, very simply is that the former is non-violent. The latter is violent. There is no "fueling" the power base except in propaganda and those who believe it.

    Considering that you fell right into their trap of divide and conquer by associating the two, who is controllable?

    Add to these groups, "survivalists", a term which most members of this board would associate themselves with. Some may associate themselves with group one, I doubt many would associate themselves with group 2.

    If nothing else comes out of this, I'd like to come to an understanding that the person who pays membership dues to the 700 club (and I'll reserve my opinion about him or her) is a very different breed from these folks who were arrested over the weekend IF what is being said about them is even true.

    Now, if your point (which was obfuscated by your biased statement) is that WE as mainstream patriots and survivalists would compromise our own OPSEC by associating with a group such as the HUTAREE. Then I agree. Sorry if I was unclear about that.

    What will emerge as I stated is that they will attempt to associate the violent religious with everyday survivalist. The end goal being gun control and subjugation.

    I think it would serve us all well if we stopped the "association" game. This group is what it is. An isolated group of violent religious extremists.
  15. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    And like I said before, I not only disagree with you, but I have also proven you wrong. FACT - Robertson is not only a right wing pundit who has served for numerous presidents in various ways, he is also one of the country's most popular Christian leader and televangelist. FACT - Hutatree is a right wing Christian group, the fact that they have become VIOLENT just became news YESTERDAY, so you CANNOT CLAIM THAT MY POINT IS INVALID BASED ON WHAT PEOPLE DECIDE TO DO FROM ONE DAY TO THE NEXT. Pat Robertson probably beats his wife, but since we DON'T KNOW THIS TO BE THE CASE, it doesn't therefore make all Christians WIFE BEATERS, now does it? And if we were to find out that he beats his wife, what then? Would that make all Christians wife-beaters? NO. So, stop trying to claim that the Hutatree religious militants have NOTHING in common with Robertson and the Neo-Cons!!!

    I made it quite CLEAR what the link is -so stop trying to defend your religion by pretending that I do not make any sense. Just stop being a fool.
    If all you are looking at is the "violent" militia aspect, then you need to STOP and readjust. This was never the issue to begin with. It was OBVIOUS that Hutatree was and is a militia, but that does not erase the FACT that they are also right-wing extremists AND Christians. STOP IGNORING THE ISSUE!
    Point made. Now, move on.
    Yes, this is my point exactly. Are you starting to understand now?

    As I will prove below, the reason was IN FACT to link the two militias: Hutatree, the religious extremist group, and the Michigan Militia, a non-violent, highly functional and active militia:

    "Still, while the more secular and libertarian leaders of the militia movement may distance themselves from the Hutaree, the two militant strains of right-wing activism share some tactical affinities, says Kenneth S. Stern, the American Jewish Committee's director on anti-Semitism and extremism. "What you're starting to see in the number of militia groups sprouting up in the last year is a general antigovernment ideology," Stern says. "The targeting of cops is not inconsistent with that. The literature that glorified that white supremacist movement that helped the militia movement take off in the 1990s advocated those tactics — especially in books like 'The Turner Diaries.' And some of these groups — like the Order and others — started setting traps for law enforcement and going after first responders."

    Link: Who are the Christian militia 'Hutaree' and why was the FBI targeting them? - Yahoo! News READ ALL OF IT SEVERAL TIMES.

    Seriously, you need to get a GRIP, man. What is wrong with you? How many times did you say the same thing to me? Are you blinded by your devout defense of religion, unable to see the simple reality being presented? Whatever, dude. You are starting to upset me, and I do not want to lead to personal attacks -so just state your objection ONCE and leave it at that, alright?
  16. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    From the Hutatree militants:

    "Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment. The only thing on earth to save the testimony and those who follow it, are the members of the testimony, til the return of Christ in the clouds. We, the Hutaree, are prepared to defend all those who belong to Christ and save those who aren't. We will still spread the word, and fight to keep it, up to the time of the great coming ... The Hutaree will one day see its enemy and meet him on the battlefield if so God wills it. We will reach out to those who are yet blind in the last days of the kingdoms of men and bring them to life in Christ."

    Case closed.
  17. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    What about the charges that the Davidians were molesting kids?
    that never came to anything.
    What about when they changed their story on the Weaver’s 4 times?
    Did they give him his wife and son back?
    The last big raid in TX when they accused molestation and seized all those kids...
    where are the kids now?Back with their parents, the charges were unfounded.(I went back and fourth with a few here on this one and it turns out they were right I was wrong )

    So now I am supposed to believe that these "militia" have plotted to mass murder police?.
    I think I will wait for more information and not add assumptions.
    I still say it is BS that There are 20,000 Mexican gang bangers out in LA taking videos of them selves talking about killing cops. They even follow through with it. Whole sale murder in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]</st1:State>Texas and <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona today!</st1:place></st1:State>
    I don't see any concerted effort to take THEM down. No, they have carefully chosen who to go after.
    Not Muslims, Not illegal Mexicans and Mara Salvatrucha 13. Just some crazy white guys.
    I don't trust the American Government anymore, to do the right thing. Which is really sad because I am as red, white and blue as they come.
    I believe this has a lot to do with the Tea Party Movement and scaring them home then by Letting the messiah run wild with <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">America</st1:country-region></st1:place> until it crashes.
    But like I said I will wait for more info……[dunno]
    Watch the other hand folks.
  18. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    Should I comment on the fact that the only link between the two groups is the word (not belief) but word "Christian" and that YOU associated the two?
    Nah, I'm going to let the above rant just speak for itself.

    I'm patient. I'll keep going until you get it.

    Do ya think I care?

    Well it looks like Brokor owns this board now. Better update the rules section.

    But seriously. Whenever I see the type of bigotry that you exhibited - linking a bunch of violent religious extremist to religious activists and practitioners
    (people who go to church, write their congressmen and maybe send out a check or two to focus on the family or the ADF) I'll call you out on it. You or anyone else.
  19. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    Exactly right.
    They're white, opposed to the Emperor.
    Then add to the fact that they call themselves CHRISTIAN
    AND they are ORGANIZED.

    That is one HUGE bullseye on their backs.
  20. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    This is exactly the same type of relationship that I see and experience with real, constitutional conservatives and whack job, nutter, conspiracy theorists that pull some wild accusations out of their butts about certain, high profile, politicians. People in "my" court want nothing to do with them as they give us a bad name, rap, credibility etc. But they are still on the same side of the "left"/"right" paradigm.
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