Recommended Mel Tappan-Tappan on Survival

Discussion in 'Survival Reading Room' started by stg58, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I would wager that this a repost but I remember reading Mel Tappan and some of his info may be dated and Jeff Cooper was not impressed with Mel but he got me thinking... on Survival.pdf
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
  2. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    Being a fan of both and of the time, my own opinion is that Jeff Cooper believed some of Mr.Tappans choice of arms and applications differed a lot from Mr.Coopers teachings. Mr. Cooper did later on soften his stance on defence arms, but happily,never on the role of the .45acp. And never on his belief in the level of skill through practice of both the arm,whatever your choice, and it's role.
    AmericanRedoubt1776 likes this.
  3. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey

    Agree that there was a time when both Mr. Tappon and Mr. cooper where the voices of authority..
    oldawg likes this.
  4. NWPilgrim

    NWPilgrim Monkey++

    As far as firearms in a survival situation I think one would be well served following either's advice. Mel recommended different guns for different tasks whereas Col. Cooper seemed more interested in one handgun and one rifle for most every task. If I had limited funds I might lean more toward Cooper's approach if not the same firearms. On the other hand, firearms was but one topic in the broad survival concerns of Tappan. It is sort of like comparing James Rawles to Craig Boddington. I would like to have Boddington at my side in any survival situation any day.
    AmericanRedoubt1776 likes this.
  5. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey

    A single rifle and pistol would not be prudent in general survival.. A .22 has it's place as sure as a .308 in another application, like any other tool..
    Moatengator likes this.
  6. NWPilgrim

    NWPilgrim Monkey++

    I didn't mean a single pistol and rifle literally, just as Col Cooper owned more than that obviously.
  7. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey

    I am sure he would have and had been the envy of many a firearm enthusiast.. My point only being that as most hunters own more than one caliber for different hunting applications the same is true for prepping.. An AR or M1A for man, a Remington 700 for deer, Ruger 10/22 for rabbits..
  8. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    Mel Tappan (and his wife) were class acts. That said, Mel was in a wheelchair most of his life and sure didn't run around in the woods! Chairman Jeff Cooper was great in print, not so great in person. The guy was seriously screwed up once you got to know him, which he hid VERY well in print/meetings. Personally I never understood the "Jeff said it, I believe it, that settles it!" and "Jeff said..." and everyone bows (or bends) down (or over). Both were good for the time and had things to say that needed to be said/heard. I recommend both their books and have them/read them all. I think that Mel's two books hold up OVER ALL better than Jeff's books do in general. Jeff finally went nutz at the end of his life which his supporters cover up, but there was a fair amount of reporting on it if you look, and I mean seriously weird. Sure Jeff did a lot of good, but he was no John Moses Browning, who you SHOULD bow down to every time you pick up a decent gun, which he probably designed or influenced!
    AmericanRedoubt1776 likes this.
  9. AmericanRedoubt1776

    AmericanRedoubt1776 American Redoubt: Idaho-Montana-Wyoming Site Supporter+

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
  10. eeyore

    eeyore Monkey+++

    I own several copies, i really enjoyed the book. Survival Guns is a much better book about firearms in general even though it is dated it still has a lot of good info in it.
  11. tract

    tract On Hiatus Banned

    what makes people "think" that looters are going to let them go back to camp/fort and trade their .22, 12 ga, bolt-action, etc, for the fighting rifle, hmmm? :) You will just have to carry the fighting rifle at all times, like the frontiersman/settlers did, along with a pack. Bowhunters made do just fine with a much, much less effective arm than a sound-suppressed, scoped, AR15 and .22lr conversion unit. Why are you so inferior to them as a hunter, hmm?

    Jeff was bsing everyone about the Scout Rifle, obviously. His claim that it made you a citizen, rather than a subject, obviously means combat vs tyrants, and who'd want a noisy, short ranged bolt action for that? :) I'd trade all of them ever made or to be made for one AR15, a scope, silencer, and .22lr conversion unit.

    Mike Harries knew Mel well,and he helped Jeff run a lot of the early Mountain Man shoots. He sold me my copy of Survival Guns in 1976, and I devoured it, but most of it was a crock. Especially the pistol stuff. He also spent a couple of pages discussing full auto, and had not one word to say about silencers, altho he had many pages about pellet guns, crossbows, .22CB caps, etc. Silly as hell.

    Mike got Mel to talk up the bs "snik" holster, and you should see the recommendation for what you should be doing with your pistol. :_-) practicing at 100 yds, and facing 3 armed enemies at 25 yds, just STAND there for 10 seconds, firing at them, swapping mags, etc. Know what would happen if it was real? you might hit one, then the others would be prone and kill you. You'd better keep your rifle on the assault sling and not be letting people just walk up on you (to 25 yds) while your pistol is still holstered. :)

    Frontiersmen managed to lug around 14 lbs of Ky rifle, powderhorn, ball, etc., just to have a noisy, misfiring single shot that gave off clouds of smoke. So you can manage 6-8 lbs of AR15, .22 unit, suppressor, and ammo and a lb of pocket 9mm. They did not have assault slings or superlight gear, while you do.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2014
  12. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey

    Short rang bolt action???? um... Dont tell that to sniper community as the more effective long rang fire arms are bolt rifles...
  13. tract

    tract On Hiatus Banned

    Do you know anything about the scout at all? It's got an 18" barrel and 2.75x scope, with long eye relief. Sniping has almost no effect, killing a half dozen at a time is more likely to count. The "high value" targets are not available at long range. You must have a takedown autorifle with a suppressor, get into the firing spot, (100m or less), probably have to first shoot several bodyguards, as the target is moved between vehicle and buildings, or as the vehicle is moving, etc.
  14. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    I don't know who "tract" is but I seriously doubt some of what he claims. What makes him so sure the looters/rioters are going to be better armed than anyone else? The old timers carried a LOT of different guns/weapons and if they had a reliable .22 or pump shotgun they would have been overjoyed! Go read the stories of the Old West and the California gold fields and it was the MAN, not the equipment that made a difference when both were armed the same or in hand to hand fighting which a huge amount of it was.

    Sure the Indians had "repeaters" (bows) and the White Men had single shots, so the Indians would come in close and get shot at, then rush them while they reloaded and wiped them out at longer than arms reach, so repeaters won, or tactics and better weapons won. If only a few fired and everyone else waited until the Indians massed for a charge and fired a volley (different tactics) things might have been different. However at close range it was tomahawks, knives, etc. that won the day. It's the MAN, his training and the tactics, not the weapon in most cases.

    When repeaters came out (read about the TX Rangers with the Paterson Colt) it really changed things. The Indians never saw such a thing! Evened up the odds! Repeaters on both sides! MOST of the personal guns carried in the old Wast were shotguns too. Read the reports of the 1812 War, especially in New Orleans and the armed volunteers that showed up (almost all were shotguns, and EVERYTHING needed repair!) or what the REAL gunfighters of the West carried when "going to war (fight)", that's right, a SHOTGUN! Cowboys carried rifles and handgun (same cartridge) but GUN FIGHTERS used shotguns for close range firepower. Most, when given a choice, used shotguns, even against rifles. Read your history instead of watching movies!

    The idea that you need a (whatever) is silly. I got a pump shotgun, you got a .22. I get a bolt action CF, you get a AR/AK. I get a tank, you get a LAWS. This can go on and on. You fight with what you got and hope you are trained and have the will to win. Training/tactics win fights, not some magic bullet/gun as long as things are reasonably equal. Look at the Brits in Afghanistan. The Brits/Russians had better weapons, the Afghans had the training/tactics for mountains. Afghans won.

    Off hand I don't remember any "Mountainman Shoots" but remember the Leather Slaps Jeff ran. Look at the "tactics" and style of shooting then. Cops were taught to squat down like they were taking a dump, fold the off arm across their chest/body and hold the gun one handed out at "belly level". This was taught at "schools", in mags, in books, etc., etc. Why it was science! WOW! Modern! WOW! The fact it didn't work past about ten feet didn't matter! With a LOT of practice and a LOT of skill it could work out to 30 feet too! NO ONE teaches that any more! After that came the ----, followed by ----, which turned into ====, none of which are taught any more but were the "next big deal", and "modern" and "scientific", and so on and so forth. All failed because they didn't factor in the human element. All OTHER things being equal, it is the HUMAN shooting the gun is what wins the gun fight. MOST people don't automatically squat down like they are taking a dump when attacked. MOST people use sights (that's what they are there for). MOST people use two hands to hold the gun. MOST people are better shots when not off balance. Standing up, gripping the gun with both hands, using the sights and HITTING the target won every time. A fast, off balance miss didn't win anything.

    "Sniping has almost no effect, killing a half dozen at a time is more likely to count. The "high value" targets are not available at long range. You must have a takedown autorifle with a suppressor, get into the firing spot, (100m or less), probably have to first shoot several bodyguards, as the target is moved between vehicle and buildings, or as the vehicle is moving, etc."

    I'm sorry, there is so much wrong here I don't know where to start. Let's just say that EVERYTHING here is wrong and leave it at that.
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