Military training...Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dragonfly, Aug 21, 2011.


  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Ok Here is a bit of a "hard" question to ask...
    It may not set well with some Veterans, but I have to ask, after a recent "visit" up north.
    I was really shocked into asking: how is this even possible?
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    (I have an "acquaintance" up north that is a Navy retiree, ( not a close neighbor) I do not know his total time in service, nor do I know his MOS, but he is on retirement, and is going to school in Flagstaff on the GI bill. He's about 50 years of age +/- ( my guess was he was younger).
    Anyway...after a 4 years stint living up there in 'never never land', he has managed to go nowhere. It's weird to say the least.
    He started to build a log cabin and quit after only putting in the exterior walls up to about 2 1/2 feet. ( that was 3+ years ago) The logs to continue construction, still lie there today.
    He lived in a tent until the snow collapsed it on his head, sometime last year or so. He built a piece meal shack from metal panels and wooden pallets. It has so many holes you can see the stars at night!
    It's like Ma and Pa Kettle!
    He has a yard full of junk vehicles which are in a state of disrepair...most could be fixed,.... "IF" someone took the time. ( he is NOT a mechanic by any means) He is always in debt and seems to NOT "get it" at all.
    His lack of preparations or foresight, is apalling.
    He never carries through on anything and seems "LOST" most days.
    He is a damned good cook though!
    I like this guy, as he looks like the "skipper" from Gilligan's Island. ( except for the ZZ Top beard) He is mild tempered, and seems like a nice guy.....He can't shoot for anything.
    He has no weapons training at all.
    He owns a .45 pistol and does NOT like to shoot it.
    He owns a LOT of various weapons in various calibers, and yet he has no basic knowledge about any one of them.
    He lacks any knowledge that most veterans acquire in the first months while in basic training.)
    ------------------------------------------------
    My question is simple, and yet complicated...
    ( not at all intended to FLAME on any member of the Military!)
    ------------------------------------------------
    How on earth can a person have 20-30 years of military service and NOT have even the most basic and common knowledge such as "flanking" moves? Even a .45 caliber pistol? At No time have I seen this man exhibit any propensity, desire, or knowledge, to do anything....
    He is as lazy as the days are long.
    He owns 8+ acres of land, all 4 parcels are adjoining, and 1 parcel he uses for a trash dump!
    He chose the worse possible location you could for a "safe" place up there. He sets at the corner of 2 intersecting "MAJOR" roads, one: N-S, the other: E-W.
    He has a low mountain less than 100 yds away on his north side.
    His "layout" of trailers and such on his land is atrocious....He could be easily "attacked/overrun" or just "wiped out" by a "force" of 2 people!
    I questioned why he chose the area he did...It was financially cheap. It was easily accessed by a standard 2wd pickup truck, which is all he had at the time.
    His place is covered with dog feces, rats, and flies! He had goats, but he got rid of them, and he got 30 chicks, which lasted for about 3-4 hours before they were "carried" away by predatory birds. His dogs never had shots, and he had at least 11 at one time...He went into Flagstaff ( 60 miles one way) just to BUY another, a Chihuahua, for $50.
    When their female dogs get pregnant, they drown the puppies.
    Until recently, the dogs had never had any vaccinations at all, so my former "caretaker" bought the vaccines and administered them, in order to protect his dogs! He has recently put in a chainlnk fence to contain his dogs, following a problem with the local Rancher. The former "caretaker" had rented a bobcat with an auger, or that would never have happened!
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Ok. so what is your "TAKE" on this scenario?
    Was this man a COOK in the NAVY, and that was all he did?
    He never actually tells anyone what his service MOS was.....
    I have seen strange before, but even a minister up there chose better land and a layout, than this Veteran did!
    Maybe it's just me.....But I have to say, this is the darndest thing I think I have ever seen, with my own 2 eyes. If you told me this, I would not have believed it. I do now.

    I was never in the Infantry, so I lack some experience in those areas of training, BUT I did go out a number of times with the 1st and 36th and the 2nd and 48th Infantry divisions....as a Combat Engineer in a "Support Unit" . (I built the bridges, they crossed them, and I took them down.)
    I learned a lot training with them.... ( 1) stay out of the mud, 2) stay inside when it snows! 3) find dry shelter and let them PLAY in the rain!)
    Armor NOT included.
     
  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Being a retired Navy CPO I will answer some of your questons. Unlike the Army or Marines, the Navy, Airforce, and Coast Guard do not start out with each and every bootcamp graduate, as a basic combat rifleman, with all the associated training and tactics to go along with it. With the Navy and Coast Guard more effort is along the lines of having the basic abilities to save the Ship from sinking. Our second phase schooling if even offered before arriving in the fleet green as grass, is a basic rating skills course on a E-4 level for a specific rating. A third phase of special training is usually only offered to the top 1/3 or 1/4 of the second phase training grads on a specific piece of equipment before going to the fleet. Thus we are initially only trained in the basic technological aspects of our rating (mos), ie gunnersmate, damage controlman, sonar tech, etc, or specific training in depth, as for a gunnersmate like; 5in 54cal Mark 45, mod 2 autoloading gun. Only if assigned (hand picked and screened) for something like Shipboard Nuke Weapons Security force will you see anything in the way of extensive weapons use, deployment and tactics. Often only with short onboard training seminars given by Marine and Seal Trainers. Land combat tactics have very little place, reason, or need for 97% or more of those assigned to ships. And, ships are what the Navy and Coast Guard are about. I would assume with the Airforce they would have greater training in ground force tactics for protecting their bases, but only from the defender perspective. Theirs is not ground attack mission force by anything other than aircraft. jmho
    .
    Bottom line, we are not trained in infantry tactics at all for the most part, and pistol training and proficiency is the only thing the vast majority of Navy and Coast Guard ever see for watch stander qualifications at point of access to their ship.
    .
    Seals and Hospital Corpsman are the exception to the above.
     
    dragonfly likes this.
  3. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    The Air Force has similar issues... Limited firearms training unless you are going over seas to a "Hot Zone" security Police augmantees get additional training in point defense... specific "specilities recieve additional training... all flight crews recieve SERE training in at least two environments ( water and temperate) depending on where you are stationed and flying you get more.... (artic, jungle, and desert)... some AFSC's recieve additional combat arms/related traiing.... TNT teams, PJ's, Combat Control Teams, Aero Commandos, AF Rangers, F/O's, mobility squadrons, etc... it is quite posssible that an individual can go through 20+ years and not recieve additional combat style training, point defense, more than minimum Combat arms training.... etc...
     
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  4. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I don't know what to say. It seems he is past the point of no return from your description.

    If you want to help:
    Instead of looking at all the things that wrong in this situation, just look at one. Pick one thing to improve and talk him in to that. Afterwards, use the pride from that (assuming he has any left) event to sale him on another.

    It just sounds like this guy checked out a long time ago. I think the only way to tackle it is one issue at a time.
     
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  5. LogOut

    LogOut Monkey+

    Some vets fall apart without the discipline of a well regulated daily routine. This could be early onset of alzenheimers / PSP or undiagnosed bi-polar.

    He could be affected by any one of a whole laundry list of mental afflictions, or he could just have a really low comfort level.

    If he's lucid, his living conditions are his choice, unless he's in such squalor as to endanger his well being. If he's obviously detached from reality it might be time to either help him or get him some help.

    Either way that's a tough row to hoe so to speak.
    Been there, done that. Best wishes for you and your friend.
     
    dragonfly likes this.
  6. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    This is the local Coast Guard conducting some sort of training exercise under my structure...Look to the rear...Weapons appear to be about 6'6'' long...


    ccc...
    Coast Guard 001.
     
  7. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    As they AITs have nothing to do with Combat Arms; Army Basic Training might well be the only exposure to "Infantry" some get.
    As the Navy and AF lack infantry my guess is they get very little if any "infantry" training.

    Not all soldiers are Infantry. ;)
     
    dragonfly likes this.
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    The Marines are the Navy's infantry, or from the other direction, the Navy is the Marine's transportation. Either way, I had no small arms training in or after boot.
     
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  9. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    and i didnt learn how to sail a ship TIL after i got out :p
    semper fi
     
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  10. Buckskin

    Buckskin Monkey+

    It could be smoke and mirrors. He wants you and everyone else he comes in contact with to think he has no clue.
     
  11. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    With Vets or posers something always shows.
     
  12. jaybow

    jaybow Monkey+

    As a former Army MP I can tell you that there are all walks of life in the military...bible thumpers, dopers, thieves, wife beaters, gang members, rednecks, yankees, guidos....you name it. I met quite a few shitbirds who should not have made it past MEPS. Motivation is one of the most important traits taught in the military, some people just don't get it. Also there are many ROAD (retired on active duty) types who get complacent and lazy after many years in uniform and there are grunts who can barely qualify and clerks who are experts. All the military does is give you the tools to guide you and those under your charge, you have do the work.
     
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  13. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Thanks to all!
    I am mystified about the guy.....
    He's not stupid, but he makes a lot of errors in judgement about everyday things. Simple things really.
    I have noticed lately he'd become a tad bit (VERY modest assessment here) paranoid. I can't reason out a lot of it , but I think he's under quite a bit of pressure and strain from his younger sibling...causes a lot of grief in his life.
    (harboring a fugitive could COST him "everything") Then I found out that not only was his brother a fugitive, but so was his "girlfriend". That's a LOT of crosses to bear! (5 years and $250,000 fine for each).
    Now I hear he is verbally assaulting everyone around, yelling and screaming ( never witnessed that side before) about how 'everyone is against him'.
    A "few" people that can/could talk to him have tried to reason that he alone is his own worst enemy right now, and creating discord amongst those he used to call his friends. It's everyone's fault but his own.....?
    Lately "we" have likened it to, and call it "the "Obama Syndrome".
    It's sad really. As I said, I like the guy.... he's like that huge teddy bear you always wanted as a kid. I hate to see him go thru this, BUT no one is able to reason with him. Maybe it's dementia or something, I have no idea.
    Given the rapid acceleration of his mood swings and bad choices, and decisions, I'd say he's on the brink to self destruct most anytime now.
    A lot of the "local" residents are keeping their distance now, whereas not so long ago, all these people got together on weekends, talked, drank, played horseshoes, and such, and were friendly to each other.
    I was there, I saw it, and I was sitting back taking mental notes of which people I thought were reliable and could be trusted...given what little information I had to work with. I found that you just NEVER really know someone, until they are under pressure. He appears to be going south rapidly.
    I was able to find out that while he was serving in the Navy, he was a "crew Chief". Not sure what that means...I have to "assume" he had others under his supervision. Maybe ( could be way off the mark here!) he was unable to really adjust to civilian life, as I was told that was the ONLY job he had ever had in his life. Some people NEED the REGIMINE ( sp?) to keep themselves going.
    A few I had seen while on active service, were facing "discharge" and they came "un-hinged' over the very thought. Some people are not able to take care of themselves, provide housing, cook their own meals, do their laundry...all "givens" in an active military role. Once put back into Civilian life, they simply do not/cannot adjust, and in a short time are in a world all their own. That can be a very bad thing. I have seen a LOT of vets living on the streets having NO real sense of direction or purpose anymore.....
    Damn shame.
    He wants to be a "leader' of those up there but hasn't the ability to accomplish it, and no one now trusts him as he has started to rant and become nasty tempered.
    He was supposed to go to a "meeting" of sorts yesterday to talk with some locals...he didn't show. 1 person said they are concerned that he may decide he has no way out, and as such shoot his younger brother, his "mate", and himself.
    I am worried.
     
  14. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    "Crew Chief" is probably air wing related. It would be his aircraft on the ground, and the pilot's when the engines are running and the chocks pulled. (He could have been qualified to taxi, that's a separate feather in his cap.)
     
  15. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    The more you tell us about this guy, the more the song "he ain't heavy, he's my brother" comes to mind. The only thing is this guy seems to have more bagage than my ex old lady, and I don't remember you saying he was your brother. jmho .... but if I were you, I would seriously consider cutting my losses and leave this walking train wreck to his own devices. .... or not. We all have the right of free will. Of course there are consequences. Such as your neighbor found out for harboring a fugitive or two....[beat]
    .
    Oh, and an air crew chief would probably be an E-4, E-5, or maybe an E-6. Not likely he would be a CPO (chief petty officer)
     
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Correct, that. Doubtful E4, tho' possible. E5, probably. E6, again doubtful, but possible, an E6 might have three or four crew chiefs working for him. If an airdale E7, more than likely he'd be filling in for an MT billet before going back to the goat locker for a cuppa and serving as division CPO.

    But still no small arms training to speak of.
     
  17. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    More than likely he was an E-6....!
    Since his location is just around 4 miles north of mine, I'm avoiding him like the plague.
    He seriously vacated any semblence to OPSEC a few months back and with that, he brought in a lot of LEO's and headaches.
    Now he's worried.
    Having 2 people on the "wanted" list, living with you, is not a good thing.
    Creating another scenario where as "weapons and a missing person" suddenly came up, is a very bad thing. The "missing" person was found (recently by myself) with the help of Az. Fish and Game personnel. ( LEO's also are aware of the location) But the question of the person that "disappeared" for some time ( in hiding) and where did his weapons end up, is another.
    That eventually will come home to roost and I for one wouldn't want to be present when that happens. Of the 3 that live at this guy's location, ALL are convicted felons, and cannot have weapons. They have 17 at last count.
    What has triggered the latest paranoia is, that the "brother" has been running around with a pistol on his hip, shooting at everything in sight, even to the point of hitting a neighbors home last week. ( shooting at "flying rattlesnakes") He not only has his own personal still, he has a nice 1/2 acre crop of wacky weed to boot! No wonder he shoots everything!
    The man is unable or unwilling to corral and contain the younger brother, so there's the RUB. He knows like everyone else, it is not a matter of "IF", it is just a matter of "WHEN". Actually I feel for the guy. It has to be a real problem, but unless he gets it under some type of control, he will lose everything. ( which is not that much) BUT, it's ALL he has.
     
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    At times like this, it can be some comfort, to have a more than Nodding Relationship with your local Deputy Sheriff. ...... YMMV.....
     
    tulianr likes this.
  19. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Totally too many negatives, and way too few positives. [beat] Cut this fool loose from your friends and associates list or get drug down to his level. You don't need the trouble he can drag you into. jmho[dunno]
     
  20. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    Holy cow dragonfly! How do run into all of these people?
     
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