Mixed on this....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Hispeedal2, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    In light of OIF, I don't know what to say about this. I don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons, but I don't want to have to go fight Persians. I think OIF may have kicked off for the wrong reasons (Endstate was good and we did a lot of good there. Much more than we did bad.) Now, I am afraid we could make the same mistake again.

    Read here:
    FOXNews.com - U.S. Has Iran Attack Plan, Mullen Says

    Of course, this all probably a "scare tactic". I don't think the current administration could handle the situation or really even wants such a situation. Which is probably why Mullen is talking it instead of Obama.
  2. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Personally, I couldn't care less if any country has nukes...many already have, but to risk nuclear war in order to get rid of nukes is ridiculous...How many wars we need untill we extinct ourselves?
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Make no mistake, the US military has a plan in place for almost anything imaginable, and they are updated when something else is imagined. Having a plan doesn't necessarily mean it will go into effect in the foreseeable future. Looks to me as tho' this is one of those cases where the obvious is discovered by someone unable to comprehend the need for planning.

    Yeesh. Sheep are everywhere.
  4. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Yep, we even have a plan in place to invade Canada - and take The Beer! [beer]
  5. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Can I enlist? Pleeease? [beer]
  6. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    IMO, that's the real reason for the FEMA detention camps.
    They're just another line item in a scenario that someone dreamed up.
    And it's not all that unrealistic. There are plenty of 9th wards in cities throughout the country that will just go beserk if TSHTF. You WILL want those people rounded up when the day comes.

    No doubt it sets a dangerous precedent, and one that may be used against law abiding citizens but I'm not sure if that was the original plan.

    At any rate, I'd like to see them demolished along with all of those 9th wards.
  7. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I understand, all too well, the shelved OPLANs we have for pretty much everything imaginable. The thing that has me posting this is that we are mouthing it. We usually don't mouth it lately unless we are planning to go kinetic on someone's ass.
  8. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Hmmm...I hope they'll find someone else to pay for the ass kinetic job...
  9. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Just "rattling sabres", as even the delusional retard in the Whitehouse knows we cannot afford to fight another war.
  10. Byte

    Byte Monkey+++

    Does he? I'm pretty sure he thinks he, or his puppet masters, can print his way out of pretty much anything.

  11. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Perhaps everything begins with Canada:

    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LAYMJnO9LBQ&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LAYMJnO9LBQ&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
  12. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Hmmm...I was thinking (OUCH!)...if govt is bothered so much if other countries have nukes, why don't they attack or disarm Israel? They have nukes too...so does Pakistan, India and even Serbia now...(former Yugoslavia)...Bulgaria also has...No oil maybe? Hmmm....
  13. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    Aw come on.
    Now I'll admit that we've made plenty of oil-motivated moves, but this guy is a bit of a nut, don't you think?
    If he pushes the button - which is somewhat likely (more so than most) - we're all in a world of hurt. No?
  14. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Like Iraq did with WMD's? Why do you view him as a nut? I'm not aware that he attacked US or any other country. As far as I know, Iran still doesn't have nukes, they just refused the order from US to stop researching nuclear science. And US govt said that they wanted to prevent them to make one. And besides, isn't North Korea more dangerous to US than Iran? And why would he push the button (that he still doesn't have) when he knows that the rest of the world would nuke him back? Wasn't that the whole idea of MAD doctrine that worked for so many years? What happens if US and Israel attack Iran? Wouldn't that give them the right to defend themselves? In any way possible? Why would anyone push the button if they are not attacked? Who is to determine if a sovereign country has the right to do it's own research into nuclear technology? US govt? Israel? As far as I know, all UN agreements signed by countries are about non-proliferation of nukes (if you have the tech, don't give it to others). And who then gave the nukes and tech to the Israeli's??? Isn't Israel a constant threat to the surrounding countries? And they were given nukes???
    All this business doesn't hold water...Is US govt an Emperor of the World that determines the rights of other countries for scientific research and development, and their rights for self defense and protection? Does this means that any other country in the world must ask US govt for permission to build nuclear power plant? Or permission to research anything involving nuclear technology? Is this the New World Order? Is this One World Government? Globalization? Emperors of the World?
    I see all this as a perversion and terror of few against the rest of the world. I know one thing...If nukes fly, we all loose and die...Except for the "Elite", safe and sound in their underground bunkers with food, water and everything else for years to come. Former Yugoslavia had in it's constitution that it is absolutely forbidden for the govt or the country to invade, attack or even meddle in any way in internal affairs of any other sovereign country...Maybe that's what ALL countries must have in their constitutions....The World didn't vote for a Global Police, so there shouldn't be one!
  15. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    Ok. He's sane and we should just pipe down when he makes overt threats.
    Scientific research? If you remember back a few years, he said that he was developing nuclear capability for the sole purpose of energy production. - yeah - in a country soaked with oil - right!.
    We said BS and waddayaknow! A few years later he reveals he's developing a bomb.

    I own guns. There is a difference between that statement and pointing a gun at a person. There is a further difference between either of those and saying that I'm going to pull the trigger.

    I'm recognize the NWO and the US part in it and I recognize guilt in many areas. So what? I'm not going to let that cloud my recognition of an obvious threat.
  16. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    So what if he said that? Is Iran obliged in any way to tell its plans to anybody? Is any country in the world obliged to do that? Does US or Israel do that? Did he said that IF he managed to make a bomb that he would drop it on US or anyone else??? If that was the case, don't you think that entire world would try to kick his butt? Don't you think that his own people would kill him right away for putting them in nuclear danger? I tend to follow world news, and I have never and nowhere seen a quote from him saying "I'll build a bomb and drop it on US!" Do you really think that anyone would say "Just wait till I make the bomb, and then you'll see!"?
    What are those overt threats? That he said that anyone that attacks his country will face fierce resistance? How would US, or any other country react if some other country threatened them with war if they didn't obey it? Who did something like that through history? Adolf?
    So, any country that has oil is forbidden to built nuclear reactor? US has oil AND reactors, so does Russia and others. Did Iran attacked anyone trying to take something from them? Did they nuke someone? Which was the only country that ever nuked anyone? Twice!
    He is building a bomb? So? Many countries have the bomb. Did any of the countries that have the bomb asked anyone if they can build it? Israel got it for free! Did they ask UN if they are allowed to get the bomb? No? Who gave them the bomb?
    So, who is to say which country is allowed and which isn't? US? Do you remember how all this Iran thing started? First time I heard Iran mentioned in the news was as US, rather rudely threatened Iran and tried to force them to stop any research, and they knew that it wouldn't work! My grandfather said immediately that Iran is next on US list. I argued with him because I figured that it would be waaaay to obvious, but I was wrong! It didn't start by Iran making a public statement that they are building a bomb, and dropping it on US or anybody else! Actually, this is a first time I ever heard that Iran threatened to nuke US! Did they get "info" from "intelligence" agencies that Iran is building the bomb and dropping it on US without ANY reason whatsoever??? Like Iraqi WMD and 9/11 "terrorists"? Come on, please....
    All this is obvious false flag nonsense, just as it was 9/11, Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Who is next? Syria? I'll listen to my grandfather from now on...
    Strangely, but it appears that you there, and we over here, do NOT have the same news! I just can't understand US govt...they always need new enemies! Actually, I understand why, but that is plainly WRONG and it hurts and kills millions of INNOCENT people! I'm not a "God fearing man", since I'm atheist, but I know what's right and wrong, and I do have conscience, unlike US govt and politicians...And they claim they believe in God, and go to Church? So, what they do? They say "Forgive me father, for I have killed thousands", and the priest would say "Say 10 Hail Mary's and you're forgiven"!!! If I'm wrong, and God exists, it will be my enormous pleasure to burn with them for eternity!
    You say you recognize obvious threat...WHAT threat??? Iran MIGHT build a bomb some day, and MIGHT drop it on US without any reason? What would the reason be? They hate your way of life, your democracy and your freedom? They envy US? According to that, ANY country with a bomb MIGHT be threat to US! And any country without a bomb just MIGHT someday build one!!! So, what's next? Invade and bomb entire planet???

    DO NOT understand me wrong! I DO NOT talk here about US PEOPLE, I'm talking about the GOVERNMENT!
    If I was King of the Earth, or God, I would order that ONLY women that have sons can be Presidents and only women can be in the government!
    I don't think that a mother would sacrifice her, or anyone else son that easily as men do!....(I'll be getting something sweet tonight for this line, wife reads over my shoulder... :D )

    I apologize if I offended anyone, wasn't my intention...but, this was my opinion...
  17. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

  18. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    So? Read the text again!
    1. Threatens ISRAEL, not US!
    2. Is a threat that he's warning Israel to stop attacking and killing at will?
    3. QUOTING Spiegel: In his speech, Ahmadinejad also referenced recent violence in the Gaza strip. "If you think that by bombing and assassinating Palestinian leaders," he said addressing Israel, "you are preparing ground for new attacks on Lebanon in the summer, I am telling you that you are seriously wrong." He went on to reference Israeli history. "Sixty years of invasion and assassination are enough. If you do not cease invasion and massacre, soon the hand of power of the nations of the region will rub you criminals with Earth," he said. Did he said anything that is not true???
    4. "If this year you repeat the same mistake of the last year," the Iranian president intoned, "the ocean of nations of the region will get angry and will cut the root of the Zionist regime from its stem." So, he's warning Israel that Arab nations will unite and destroy them? If US or any other country was in a position of other country constantly attacking them, or killing it's citizens, what would they do?

    5. ALL this is about Israel? What does any of this has to do with US?
    6. WHERE in the text do you see anything or any statement saying "I'll nuke US!.... or even I'll nuke Israel?
    7. He is threatening Israel THIS YEAR! Read the article: " The speech came just hours after a report by the UN's nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), warning that Iran's ongoing enrichment of uranium meant that the country could have a nuclear bomb within three to eight years." ...In THREE to EIGHT(!!!) years!!!

    This article's headlines are written in a way that strongly suggests that he's going to nuke Israel and it is a SCAM and a FALSE FLAG!
    It's so obvious that I was laughing while reading it! Who wrote this highly suggestive and deceiving crap? Some "intelligence" agency?
    Do they really think that entire world is stupid and blind???
  19. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    I really don't know what to tell you. You obviously are looking at this from the exact opposite perspective from what I am or from what most people in the US are. That's ok. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but entire books have been written about the subject and I think that's what it would take to get you to see things from the other side and that's above my pay grade. At any rate, I'll try to address some of what you brought up:

    Does that really matter? If someone is going to use nukes - which kill of thousands indiscriminately, everyone will get involved. It will be a world war and rightfully so. There is a moral imperative to get involved if someone does that.
    Also, the Arab POV is that Israel is a 51st state. Ok then. They said it, so then they know they are attacking the US, right? You can't have it both ways. You can't turn around and later say "but we were only attacking Israel". This kind of duplicity is in Arab rhetoric every day.

    You and I can count up all the transgressions by Israel and all of the transgressions by Arab nations and what do you think we'll find? That we never get to the end of them all and we'll never declare an "innocent party". Can we agree to that?

    That's the problem. Remember my example of the gun? I can line my house floor to ceiling with guns. That's legal. As soon as I even imply that I will do harm to someone, I'm going to have the sheriff knocking at my door. Words mean something. It's not all bullsh*t. When someone is holding a gun and says "destroy you", you take them seriously. Where I live, you can legally shoot someone in self defense if they have the "Means, Motive and Opportunity" to do you harm. This guy is developing the means, boasting of his motive and waiting for an opportunity. I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD ATTACK HIM ok? But I am saying that he should be taken very seriously - much more so than say France who has THOUSANDS of nukes and can't figure out what to do with them besides blow up a few Polynesian islands.

    See above.

    Now they're talking 1 to 2 years. Funny but just a few years ago we were debating as to whether he was telling the truth when he claimed it was all for "energy". See how this is getting worse by the day?

    Let's go back to the subject of the thread for a second: US has contingency plans in case of a war with Iran. Is that unreasonable? We probably have plans on how to attack France, but they're probably old and dusty where these are more up-to-date. Why? Well for crying out loud, maybe it's because the guy is ramping up and shouting about the destruction he'll bring about. Words mean something. When someone shoots off their mouth you take it seriously.

    Israel: They've had Nukes since about 1966. They've been in how many wars since then where their very existence was under attack by all sides? And they showed the discretion NOT to use them.
    Do you really think Ahmadinejad will show the same discretion? Really? REALLY?
  20. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    I can understand any country in danger having contingency plans...Normal thing to do. I honestly can't see how Iran can attack US...Can you? Do they have teleporters? Or are they going to use commercial airplane to deliver the nukes, like in 9/11? And why would they? What's the reason? "He is crazy" is definitely not a reason! Do you believe that shooting mouth is a reason for attack? Why didn't US attack Venezuela, or Cuba...or North Korea? Or are they next? Is US going to attack anyone that says a bad word about the govt? What next? Thought crime?
    You say it's moral imperative? So, bombing a sovereign country, guilty of not complying with orders of another country is the moral thing to do?
    Moral for who? Does this means that by analogy it would be highly moral for US govt to start killing all people in the US who disagree with them or those who talk bad about the govt? So, moral for who? For bankers and oil companies? Are you saying that lives of ordinary people in Afghanistan or Iraq are better now? They are safe, fed and happy? Come on, pal...We all see what is going on there, we all see bombs going off on a daily basis! I think that it's the top of a perversion when US govt talks about "war on terrorism", "right thing to do" and "have the obligation to protect the world"...LOL... Who in the World ever asked them to protect it?!
    Are you suggesting that Iran will attack US the moment they build a bomb?
    Like "terrorists" did 9/11? The rest of the world knows what is going on. We know that they are constantly looking for excuses to attack some country they can exploit. It's always the same!
    The more time passes, the more probable another 9/11 scenario looks like!
    Israel is attacking ships that carry relief supplies all the time. Turkey is so pissed that will send military ships to escort supply boats.
    In lot of our news, analysts are saying that US and Israel are apparently determined to start another war. Can you imagine what will happen if Arab countries, or even Muslim countries unite? They will wipe Israel out! Are you sure that then Israel will not use nukes? Yeah, right....
    And what is next? Global thermonuclear war? Over oil?
    And how come that for US govt everyone is an enemy or a terrorist?
    When our government serves us some crap, expecting us to accept it, we analyze it, and if we don't like it, we protest, file petitions to the court for review...
    I'm sorry, but I just can't understand how can people justify murder of other innocent people who never did anything to hurt them...I guess you are aware that in every US "action" so far, the number of "collateral damage" and "accident" victims, (and that's extremely perverse description for murder of innocent people, mostly women and children), was always higher than armed soldiers deaths!
    I'm not a politician, and I don't care about their point of view. They proved that they are filthy, inhuman creatures without any heart or soul. I look at all this as a man who might some day be bombed by "democratic" states because oil or something else was found in my country.
    People should stop and think for a minute, try to imagine how would they feel if bombs and missiles were falling every day and killing their families.
    You say that books were written? So? Hitler wrote "Mein Kampf". I guess people don't realize that govt can have all the books they need written. Would you believe if tomorrow book comes out that says that Corexit is harmless, and you can eat it?
    On this planet, people cry and protest if someone kills an animal, but they just don't care if people are killed...It's called "politics"...
    Do you realize that people from foreign countries reading and watching what ordinary Americans think and say are basically drawing conclusions about American nation? What do you think is the reason that people worldwide have the opinion that they have about US? Most of them are thinking: US govt bad=ALL Americans bad!
    Wouldn't be easier for US and Israel to just kill Iran president and be done with it? Couldn't they do the same with Iraq?
    Our views are apparently as different as night and day...I have right to mine, you have right to yours...
    False flag politics killing people can not be justified in any way, no matter how you look at it, how many books are written or how many excuses are made.
    I'll imitate Nostradamus, and make prediction...Very soon you will see another "brutal and unprovoked terrorist act", or something similar triggering attack on Iran...that is if govt is still afraid, or has any shred of respect for US people. If not, they'll just attack them without reason!
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