Money, Taxes, and Economic Slavery in the U.S.

Discussion in 'Financial Cents' started by UncleMorgan, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    This is a heavy subject, but I'll try to do it justice.

    First, there is no such thing in the real world as "money". Money is a human invention, an abstraction. You can go all over the world and never find a "money" in Nature. There is nothing that you can point to and say "Oh look! There's a money!"

    You can, of course, find increments of money, which are sometimes called dollars, for example, and are also referred to as "money" in general--as if the map was the terrain.

    So, fundamentally, money is an idea, and a tool.

    So what is it a tool for? It's a tool for regulating an individual's access to resources.

    Want a bucket of coal? No money, no coal. Want food? No money, no food--unless you grow your own--which, inevitably, requires money.

    And how do you get money? By "working" for it. Money is the tool that trades your time and sweat for a sharply limited ration of resources. (Note: Minimum wage=minimum resources.)

    So the average person must work eight hours a day to earn the money to buy the food to give them the strength to work eight hours a day--ad infinitum.

    And that is economic slavery. And that is what our civilization is based on.

    Everyone MUST work, or our civilization collapses. No one drives a garbage truck because they want to. No one digs ditches because they want to. No one stands behind a cash register all day because they want to.

    They do it because the have to. They do it because they are slaves. Economic slaves--no more free from their desperate need for money than an addict can be free from his desperate need for drugs.

    But money is a flawed idea--or perhaps a very cunningly constructed idea. (You decide!)

    In all the world, there is only a finite amount of resources that can be accessed. ("Divvied up".)

    But money, being an abstraction, can be infinite in its quantity.

    (And now we interrupt this irregularly scheduled posting for the mere requirements of the real world. I'll pick this back up in a few hours.)
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
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  2. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Funny but you don't seem to need money until you have a "civil" society. When you get priests, police, courts, kings, armies, roads, castles, navies, etc, then you need some way to "pay" those civil servants for their "valuable" services and reward them for their "sacrifices" for the public good. Started with the chief and shaman in the tribe and as more and more figured out that it was a good racket, it kept expanding until you ended up with the governments,, religions, educational system, medical system, financial systems,etc of today. If all the kings and drones are going to live in harmony, they have to be paid and they no longer take goats or fatted calves. When the Europeans arrived in south africa, the natives did not want to work on their mines and farms. Were living just fine as they were, thank you. A "head" tax was imposed on them that had to be paid in cash and thus forced them to either work for the cash, given back to the overlords as taxes, or work as prisoners for not paying the tax. Guess who lost and the tribal elites soon bought into the system and said we want our share. Now we look at the africian nations and wonder why they can not govern themselves and why every family or tribe wants to steal s much as they can. No offense meant, but they were taught by some of the worlds greatest experts on how to use money and power to control people and steal their labor. Now at 78 and April 15 is here. Pay property tax of $4,000 a year, income tax on my earnings, investments and social security, pay a third of my social security for my "free" medical, pay the financial system to "manage" my 401k, the bank pay 1/2% interest on my retirement cd's, the price of fuel goes up or down 25 % in a couple months over stock market expectations on future demand, etc, and people wonder how we got from a system of barter to one of money. The old advise to "Follow the money" kind of hints at why we have a money system and who benefits from it? Hint the top do well with their share and so far a large group of the poor have figured out how to game the system. That leaves the former middle class and the working class to carry all the rest. Kind of makes you wonder where Trump's support is coming from,
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  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Money is just a unit of trade for goods/services.
    Easier to carry a twenty in your pocket than it is to tarry 5 bushels of corn.
    Plus it's more convenient, especially if you want a couple of chickens and the tradesman doesn't want corn.

    Money is not necessarily evil nor a tool of control.
    Money could be shiny rocks, glittery gold, a can of beans, bottle of whiskey, round steel coins or flimsy paper with pictures of dead people. If you say it's good for trading and I say it's good for trading then we have agreed, it's 'Money'

    It's when a government or quasi-government group decide that only their 'Money' is legal trade that things can start going downhill.
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  4. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    Money started out as a way to make trade easier, a useful tool, since then the corporatacracy. has brainwashed us all into thinking its mandatory and thus, it has become a tool, everyone answers to someone

    Today, at the personal level money is a tool at the banking level in computers, its power. He who controls how money flows has the power.
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
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  5. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    (Indeed, duane! All of the financial games are rigged against the player.)

    Picking up from my previous post:

    Money, having the ability to be infinite, can be increased to infinity by the simple process of compound interest--which extracts the maximum amount of money from the borrower in the shortest amount of time (subject to the local usury laws, if any).

    It can also grow through investment, although usually at a slower rate. Investments seldom pay compound interest as their "dividends".

    Now, given the potential for infinite money, certain individuals can break free of the "sweat=money" paradigm, and acquire enormous amounts of money through gaming the system.

    Often that is done through business activities that profit until the owner can go on permanent vacation and leave all the "work" that accumulates the money to variously underpaid menials--from idiot-level labor to middle and high management.

    Sometimes it's done by gambling, as in the stock market, where the people who sell the bets always win.

    Or it can be done through paper promises--like lifetime memberships and timeshare housing, where performance will never actually be done in full, and thus may be essentially cost-free.

    Many diverse activities can break the "sweat=money" relationship. Indeed there are so many that any person with reasonable intelligence and initiative can become wealthy in a remarkably short time.

    But most people stay in the wage-per-hour work category because they desire the illusion of security and do not want to think beyond the end of the next weekend. Or because they fear the unknown that surrounds independent enterprise.

    Here's how interest works over time:

    If you take a chess board, which has 64 squares, and start with one penny on the first square, and two on the next, and four on the third, etc., until all 64 squares are covered, how much money will you need for each square--and how much will be on the last?.

    This example is 100% interest, where the money doubles at each step.

    The first square: 1 cent.
    the second: 2 cents.
    The third: 4 cents.
    The fourth: 8 cents.
    The fifth: 16 cents.
    The sixth: 32 cents.
    The seventh: 64 cents.
    The eighth: $1.28. (End of first row.)

    Now we're talking dollars--and they'll grow just as fast as the pennies did.

    Over the next eight rows, the money will rise from $1.28 to $2.56, then $5.12, then 10.24, then $20.48, then $40.96, then $81.92, then $163.84, then $327.68 on the last square of the second row: square 16.

    It will have increased 128 times from square 9 to 16.
    Just like it increased 128 times from square 1 to square 8.

    Each row will increase 128 times from the number that starts it.

    Row 17 will have $633.36 on it, and row 24 will have $83,886.08 on it.

    Row 25 will have $167,772.16 on it, and row 32 will have $21,474,836.48 on it.

    Now we are in the multi-millions, and the board is only half covered.

    Row 33 will have $42,949,672.96 on it, and row 40 will have $5,497,558,138.88
    And now we're in the billions.

    Now, rather than doing the rest of the chessboard by rows, let's skip to the amount of money (still in pennies) on square 64--after all those billions of dollars have grown into trillions, and more.

    And the final number is...(drum roll)...$184,467,440,737,095,516.16
    (And that's quadrillions of dollars, me buck-o!)

    18,446,744,073,709,551,616 pennies. Ga-zillions of pennies!

    A US penny is 0.0598" thick. So, if you had lots of superglue and were good at playing Jenga, one hundred pennies (one dollar's worth) would stack up 5.98" high.

    And it would take 10,595.318 stacks to glue up a tower one mile high. Call $10,595.32 per mile of tower.

    $184,467,440,737,095,516.16 divided by $10,595.32 (per mile) gives you a penny tower 17,413,562,578,785.075 miles high.

    The approximate average distance from the Earth to Pluto is 3,665,000,000 miles. Just over 3.6 billion miles.

    So that penny tower would reach from Earth to Pluto 4,751.31 times over.

    That would take a lot of superglue, and you'd have to stack fast if you wanted to be out past the Moon before you died of old age.

    Now, the above was a lot of numbers, and a lot of long ones.

    But what it points out why Einstein, when asked what the most powerful force in the Universe was, said "Compound interest."

    (Later he changed that to "Human stupidity.", but I think that was after the atomic bombs were dropped on Japan.)

    So, seeing how powerful interest can be, you can probably see that even 5% interest will suck the money out of a poor person's pockets faster than you can say "Jack Flash" and spit at the Moon.

    Anyone who pays interest on anything is being financially gelded.

    The only exception is arbitrage--where someone might pay 5% interest to make 15% interest, which is one of the main ways the Rothchilds got very very rich.

    Anything that takes away a person's spare change keeps them from putting it to work making interest.

    And that keeps them poor.

    Taxes keep people poor. So do beer and cigarettes. And recreational drugs. And that daily cup of coffee at Starbucks.

    If you could invest $10,000.00 at 10% compound interest for 10 years, you'd wind up with $25,937.42 in interest, plus your original ten grand. In forty years, it would be $452,592.55 in interest, plus the original ten grand.

    From this example it is easy to see that any family could easily become millionaires over the course of as little as three generations.

    And that CANNOT be allowed to happen.

    If everyone was rich, no one would do the dirty jobs that always need doing, The jobs that only slaves can be made to do.

    So the governments (at every level) tax that $10,000 out of existence long before it can be invested. Preferably before it even shows up on your radar. As in "withholdings" from your paycheck, for example.

    It's no accident that the more you make, the higher your taxes--right up until you can buy your way out of paying taxes entirely.

    Until you reach Loophole Heaven.

    In Denmark, taxes are so high that an author who makes $600,000.00 off his best-selling novel can wind up owing $1,000,000.00 in taxes. (Or thereabouts--the point is that the taxes put him well underwater, and right out of business. And in the poorhouse, besides.)

    And, to be doubly sure, governments tax the interest on any investments you manage to make, so you have less money to reinvest, and then they tax the money you have when you die so your children will also remain economic slaves.

    Break time--back in when. (Isn't this exciting? Or, at least, enraging?)
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
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  6. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Most economists will call money nothing more than a "medium of exchange" that avoids (for example) hauling two sheep to the market to trade for a cow. As Yard and Visu say, money has only the value that is agreed to between trading partners. Nowhere is the "dollar" or "ruble" or "yen" decreed as having a certain value measured against any specific base. Wampum can work, and has, when the two or more trading partners agree. Just another commodity of convenience. (Supply and demand rule the marketplace, not the medium of exchange.)

    Dot gov can and has decreed that the dollar is legal tender. That's fine and dandy, but if you want to, there is nothing standing in the way of any two or more trading partners from agreeing to use polished buffalo horns or gallons of maple syrup between them, nor preventing them from issuing to each other certificates good for a number of gallons or stones. When the trades go out of the agreeing group, then it's convenient to have a medium of exchange to work with.
  7. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Fractional Reserve banking is the problem. That and the ability to print money on a whim, target inflation rates .. here is the evil.
  8. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    Fractional Reserve banking is only a small part of the problem. The real problem is derivitives
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  9. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Yeah, there is that. Seems there are more derivitives than money supply.
    Well as long as the soverign investors keep buying the junk and don't step out of line .. the derivitives will just keep going making the hole deeper.

    Meh, they'll just print more money.
    Ganado likes this.
  10. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Money is barter with an artificial exchange medium.
  11. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I agree with @VisuTrac "Easier to carry a twenty in your pocket than it is to carry 5 bushels of corn." And, @kellory "Money is barter with an artificial exchange medium."

    I can't agree that working means the people are 'economic slaves' because if they didn't work for money they would be working to build their own shelter, grow their own food, develop their own water supply, cutting wood for warmth and so forth - meaning - the purpose of one's life, or a major portion of it, is to work in order to survive. By working for money they exchange this for their necessities instead of making or developing them themselves.

    'Economic slavery' in my opinion is when you are indebted by law to pay money for some article(s) or service(s) that you have taken without paying in full (via money or trade) and you have no option to revert back to self sufficiency - building your own home instead of renting or buying a pre-built on credit. You no longer have a choice in the matter and it is this lack of freedom of choice that makes a slave. You don't have a choice and you must work to pay off your debt in the form of barter that was agreed upon - money. One could say that 'debt' is the maker of economic slavery.

    Most people in today's modern world are economic slaves. They willing trade some of their freedom of choice in order to purchase modern necessities or basic needs. For example, one will borrow money to build their home on the 5 acres left to them by a dear old dead uncle instead of building themselves a one room cabin on the land with their own hands. By doing so they have place a collar of debt around their neck which limits their future choices and willing joined the multitudes of economic slaves. Once started, few will ever become unshackled and most will add more collars.

    Just my opinion...
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  12. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    That sounds like an indentured servant. One makes a deal to serve for a time limit in exchange for training or property.
  13. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Exactly...and like it or not, that's is what most of the population is... But, in general, IMHO it is not a bad thing because we must work anyway if we are to survive, it's when they put too many shackles around their necks that the collars of servitude become too heavy and bad things start to happen. There is a big difference between basic needs (shelter, clothing, food and water) and wants, desires... that 70" Ultra HD, sports cars, a Bahama vacation...

    @UncleMorgan let's hear the rest of it! It is a cold, wet day so we can't work outside and this is good intellectual conversation, warms up the old grey matter. :)
  14. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    The real shackles are all placed by design and the people who place them run the world. It would be nice to build a 1 room cabin on your land, but in the "Live Freer Die" state, the building codes, zoning codes, HUD rules and such make that impossible today. You must have a well, septic, road, foundation, minimum number of square feet, 2 by 6 walls with a minimum R value insulation, specified R value windows for conservation reasons, can't live in a house without an occupancy permit and so on. You are forced to buy a house and the real estate people control the prices and access to the loans. Your car has to meet the inspection standards, be liscened, insured, and thus the cheap cars are gone. Under Obummercare you have to help subsidize the poor and sick and if you are healthy and want to take a chance on your health, you will not be allowed to. You can not run a business from your house, offer services without liability insurance and often state liscences . can not leagly sell food out of your garden without going through a farmers market, Have to pay property taxes, car registration tax, get building , driveway, timber cut and other permits and pay for them with money. Seems like we are slves to the system. The stated goal of the FED is to have at least 2 % inflation and in my life I have seen over 10%. That means you lose half your saving in 7 to 20 years.
  15. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    So many interesting (and valid) points, but I'll keep on my main track for now...

    Part III

    Given that almost everyone must work, what is the difference between a free working man and an economic slave.

    It's really very simple: The economic slave works for another person's profit, at the pay rate that is dictated to him, and at whatever times and places his employer demands. He does the work that his employer orders him to do, and does it at the speed his employer dictates.

    The economic slave who works too slowly, or does his job too poorly, or misbehaves on or off the job, can be punished by his employer.

    Usually, but not always, the punishments are economic: demotion to a lower pay scale, or punitive unpaid "layoffs" where you are denied the right to continue earning your living. Or outright firing, if you no longer look suitably profitable to your employer. Or suitably subservient.

    The free worker, on the other hand, works for his own profit, keeping all of the fruits of his labor. He can labor at any job he chooses, and the times he chooses. and at the speed he chooses. He works to his own schedule, and can be commanded by no one. And he is subordinate to no one.

    He usually does not have the illusion of "economic security" that the slave has been conditioned to believe in and be dependent upon.

    (News flash: There is no security in life. None. Zero. Nada. Zip. Nunatol. There is only the illusion. There is no security in a person's job or profession, his marriage, his health, his relationships with friends and relatives, or the operation of his favorite automobile. Any of that can (and will) stop, sooner or later. All a person can do is try to stay afloat as well and as long as possible in a raging sea of uncertain outcomes.)

    A lesson from history: Spain was once one of the most powerful nations in the world. Then they made the mistake of looting vast amounts of money in the New World and shipping it home. It wrecked their economy. Every time the news spread of a new treasure ship on the horizon, prices quadrupled, and then quadrupled again.

    Gold was so abundant that only the poorest would still labor. There were not enough people sufficiently destitute to plough the fields and harvest the grain.

    In the end, the only question was "How much gold is the last peach in Spain worth?"

    It took Spain 400 years to (mostly) recover from the collapse of their system of economic slavery, and they never regained their former power as a nation.

    Now, back to resources.

    Resources are finite, money is not. No matter how much money there is, it is impossible for everyone in China to have a motorboat on the Yangtse River, or for every person in New York to have a penthouse apartment. In the first case, there simply isn't enough room. In the second case, there simply aren't enough rooms.

    But, for whatever resources are available, money is the means of allocating and rationing them.

    Just as ant hives have hierarchies, so do humans. We have our own analogues of workers, drones, queens, warriors, etc. The higher up in caste within the human hive, the more money the individual possesses, and the greater the amount of resources they are allowed to consume.

    In our hive, the workers are economic slaves. If they don't work, they don't eat, and soon the hive has purged itself of a useless member.

    Consider the following facts:
    Approximately 62% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their savings accounts and 21% don’t even have a savings account. (Most Americans have less than $1,000 in savings)

    The average U.S. household with debt carries $15,762 in credit card debt and $130,922 in total debt. *American Household Credit Card Debt Statistics: 2015 - NerdWallet)

    The average rate on credit card interest is just over 15%.

    The average American earns $27,519.00 per year in wages. That's $529.21 per week, including the presumption of paid vacations.

    The average American pays 30.2% of their income for rent. That's an average of about $160.00 per week.

    They pay about $45.37 in interest per week on credit card debt, without reducing the amount of debt (on average).

    If non-credit card debt runs at a conservative average of 6%, the average American also pays $151.00 a week for that, without reducing the principle.

    So, just in debt service and rent, the average American pays $356.37, leaving a paltry $172.84 per week for all other expenses.

    But then there's the average 10.1% of their wage that Joe Average pays in Income Tax. That's 2,779.419 per year, or $53.45 per week.

    So that shrinking paycheck shrinks even more, down to $119.39 per week, from which all other living expenses must come.

    In the end, the average economic slave has to get by on $17.05 per day.

    But wait--go back!

    He also spends $151.00 per week on food. (We all have to eat, right?)

    So now the average wage-earner is $31.61 a week in the red.

    And that's without even considering clothes, gas, medical insurance, prescription drugs, etc.

    So the average American wage slave lives from paycheck to paycheck, never quite able to break even, much less get ahead.

    So wifey has to work for the family to get by, right?


    As soon as wifey starts punching her timeclock, she becomes another average American economic slave, and her contribution to the family is another full set of expenses and another $31.61 a week in the red.

    So, how can the average person get by?

    By going deeper and deeper into debt. And cheating on their taxes. And working a second job under the table. And selling drugs. And stealing. And getting government handouts. And by doing whatever else they can to keep the wolf from the door.

    Obviously, not every person is in so bleak an economic situation--but the point is that most are.

    And because of the crushing burden of need and the inadequate amount of money to alleviate it, the average economic slave MUST work, and must work at whatever job he can find, and must accept whatever the going rate is without complaint, lest he find himself with no job and no cushion of savings to fall back upon.

    It is almost impossible to break the chains of economic servitude. Our entire society is designed to prevent that from happening.

    Us preppers are typically in a somewhat better situation simply because we prep, for that requires some tiny margin of profit in our daily lives. And we have already restructured our lives to allow that.

    If a person becomes debt free--and does nothing else to change their "average" lifestyle--their discretionary income suddenly rises by $196.37 a week. That's a screaming fortune, compared to going $31.61 further into the red every week.

    Debt is the chain that binds us in our economic slavery. Debt is the single greatest factor in reducing our freedom of choice, action, and thought.

    The concept of civilization is still young, and it is not yet clear whether this human experiment will prove successful. For some it is a surpassing benefit and source of opportunity. For others it offers only the bleakest servitude.

    But one thing is obvious: our economic system is fundamentally flawed because it is not and can never be self-sustaining. The collapse is inevitable, and is unfolding at an unpredictable rate even as I write.

    When our system collapses, it is the economic slaves that will suffer the direst consequences, for they have no reserves to sustain them.

    (This completes the evening's entertainment. We now return control of your brain to the New World Order. Please focus your attention on the Eye above the Pyramid.)
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  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    (1) And fortunately or not, he often becomes a capitalist (in the pejorative way) employing slaves to enlarge his ability to do what he wants. He is not motivated to stop working when he has enough. Additionally, your definition does not account for societal impacts, it only works in isolation.
    (2) We wish that were true, but it isn't. They become a burden on the other slaves that pay into the safety net schemes.
    (3) I have to question "most". If it were true, then those unable to get to a break even situation would sap the resources of those that are better, by even a little, than break even. But as observed widely, those on the upper ends of the resource scale are NOT permitted to keep all of their earned fruits of labor; thus becoming wage slaves even if they ever were free workers.
    (4) By design or not (and by whom the design may have been conceived) the system is not going to allow anyone the freedom to be a free worker. Fuggeddaboudit. Therefore that definition cannot ever be realized in other than a conceptual manner. There is no economic theory that can sustain a real world test of that definition. There are economic tests, real world tests, that can be applied to the wage slave nomenclature. A particularly clear example is found in the symbolic and iconic "company town" of coal mining companies. You can also chase down some models of wage slave rebellions as epitomized by union uprisings in any particular area of slave abuse.

    And so, with the concept of "free worker" laid to rest, we get to an interesting question. If free does not exist, then all are slaves. Now, for a slave to exist, there has to be a master. Who is the master?
  17. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    yes a slave system with no ownership of the slave just of the slave's time which means you have no care for the person. Just use and toss.

    I know this is an economic discussion... and a very good one. But economics isn't everything, what happened to virtues like 'caring for your neighbor' (no I don't think the government should do it) Its easy to talk in lofty ideals, economics, slavery etc but there is still a huge part of being human and that does involve relating to each other and having care for the other person.
  18. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    To your first statement, who owns the slave's time? I.e., who is master?

    As soon as you toss morals and ethics into the discussion, as you observed, economics becomes much more complex in that it requires assigning a monetary value to each of the components. And, the question of free vs. slave is unaltered by those concerns EXCEPT as the person involved wishes to classify himself. Note that, per post #16 above, a free worker does not, and cannot exist, so it becomes more of a question about how much of a slave one has to consider himself to be. NB: I am NOT going to differentiate between male, female, or other. "Himself" will serve for all genders, imagined or assigned, natural or not. That entire discussion is NOT for this thread.
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  19. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    And just remember that our citizens making 12k per year are still in the top half of the global population in terms of annual income.
    better than the average Chinese, Indian, Argentinian, Hungarian, Pole, Russian, Brazilian, Peruvian, Ukrainian, Modavian, and Just about everyone on the continent of Africa, ...etc.

    Yep, our poor are poor but by global standards, they are better off than most.

    It's all a matter of perspective.
  20. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    lol we are talking slavery, not relativism.... wage slavery is still slavery.

    @ghrit while I appreciate your point, it wasn't exactly what I was talking about. When there was ownership of people, not just owner ship of a man's time, (or woman's now can we cut out the politically correct crap?) the slave had a tradable value. So it was a good economic idea to keep the slave in decent condition if you wanted to sell them. When you are a wage slave and the commodity is your time, you are either available or not and no care is given to how you survive. in some respects its much more dehumanizing. JMO.
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