1. The Topic of the Month for October is "Make this the Perfect Bugout Location". Please join the discussion in the TOTM forum.

Monkey Underground...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Falcon15, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    OK So a friend of mine in my prepper group put forth a scenario and I thought of you guys first.

    Scenario: Mr. X is from Texas. He is in Washington (Den of Corruption - not state of), yelling at his Congresscritter when the S HTF in a big way. How would Mr. X, be able to make his way home relatively safely and with a little help?

    My thoughts were (and are mirrored by others I spoke to about this): An "underground railroad" like the escaped slaves used during the Civil War era. Providing a hot and a cot for one or two nights, a pistol and some ammo (if needed), a map and contacts on down the road...etc. etc.

    Problem is...we would have to come up with a way to communicate to the "way stations" and identify ourselves.

    This could also work as a "pony express" of sorts. Knowing the location of even just the next way station down the road in any direction you could write a letter and send it on down the way.

    Just some thoughts...

    I, and my group, for one are willing to be a way station, and help a fellow prepper/monkey out. Of course, there would have to be a common understanding and agreement, etc.

    Any ideas?

    I put this forward because some of our fellow monkeys travel extensively and great distances from home for their work and we would all want to see them home safe if the SHTF. At least I know I would anyhow...
    beast likes this.
  2. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    good idea, but, it needs a means of communicating after TSHTF
    a series of alt routes, passwords, no single person should know all the routes
    anyone caught could give up the entire train
    even if all you knew was the next stop, bad guys go there and then they know the next one too
    from DC to TX id seriously consider using a boat, safer and faster

    im not saying i wouldnt like to be part of a railroad like this
    just that it needs a lot of prepping and planning
    no one will want to do it if they see one of the other stops cleaned out
  3. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey++

    i have bought that up before with a few friends of mine on the road out of the NYC at the time because of my duty's takeing me there to live ..

    we where going to lay in supplies at people house we knew along the route to his place in GA area then i was going to make my way west to my place in az ..i had set up diff check point's to have supplies layed in at that point to make to the next point intill i reached home .
  4. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Well, commo...BTPost discovered some great secure digital comms...I think a lot of monkeys have been getting them (I have 5 here). Codes and passwords would work.
  5. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    and in the event of a major EMP?
    digital is very susceptible to such
    and any form of airwave communication can be easily traced
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Beast, you need to read the "SECURE Comms Blog" ... These are Spread Spectrum Radios, and that makes them UNScannable. They are small enough and cheap enough, that a set, or multiple units, can be stored in EMP Proof Storage, for just this type senerio. Once "authenticated" Comms have been made, with a fixed Group, by a mobile Group or Persons, then Private Mode Comms Codes can be exchanged, for direct, unit to unit Comms, for OPSEC.
    All the numerous pairs, I have sent out, to fellow Monkeys, for testing, have a Squad Comms setup of "Channel 5 & Spreading Code 5" I would just call this the "Monkey Channel" Then once the "Bonfidies" of a person using the Comm on the Monkey Channel, was authenticated, Switching to the fixed Groups Squad Comms channel & spreading code, or specific PDNs (Private Digital Number) can be exchanged for setting up a Private Mode and a Face Meet, for an Off-Site Meet, That would keep OPSEC, for the fixed Group, and they then can then decide, if they will do more for the mobile Group or Persons. OPSEC for the mobile Group, comes from being able to move after each non-Secure Comms, using other Gear, Frequencies and Systems. I have a eMail into an European OEM, that has just announced a new USB Device that can operate in the same iDen/ISM Band, and has the possibility of being able to setup Peer to Peer Spread Spectrum Digital Ad-Hoc Networking, between computers/laptop/notebooks. If this pans out, it could add another layer of encryption, for SECURE Comms, which could greatly improve OPSEC, for Groups and Folks.
    hank2222 and Falcon15 like this.
  7. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    where do i find these?
  8. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    hank2222, Pax Mentis and Falcon15 like this.
  9. Huntinbull

    Huntinbull Monkey+

    Great ideas falcon! BTPOST, as always an informative and to the point post (about the secure comms). You KNOW i'm gonna have to pick up a couple of these.
  10. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Thinking this one over, and I note that the slave's u/g railroad was set up in face to face dealings. Seems more than likely that's what will have to be done today. Beyond that, there is no completely secure way to move the comms codes around. Even with the secure iDen phones (and assuming the range really is 6 miles) that's a lot of messenger stations (and a lot of trust to build) to cover nation sized events. I'd say they are highly useful tactical devices, but seems unlikely to serve well for long haul get home via way stations.

    Since birth, SM has focused on more or less local and small group survival strategies and tactics rather than whole earth covert cooperation. (We have tacitly avoided the appearance of a paramilitary/militia opposition to dot gov after seeing how the militia movement was handled.) Endless hours of thinking on the road, or in the air (or with mindless TV running in the background) points me to think that a ham network is going to be the solution for monkey comms over any kind of distance. It remains to be seen which bands (standard or otherwise) will wind up being used, but it's pretty certain that repeaters cannot be counted on. The guy that wants (par ex) to get home to WA from DC will have to have local operator contacts on both ends and be passed hand to hand along the way. Mind blowing complexity, but not impossible.

    Another recent brain fart tells me that setting up way stations too soon will introduce security problems. Set up too soon will make the "system" vulnerable to discovery. Then again, how can a method of getting people out of harm's way be interpreted as subversive? (Well, you know the answer to that --)
  11. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    OK then...start local. I meet with folks that are say...20 miles from here. They meet with folks 20 miles out, etc. etc. Seems that we speak a lot about community. We speak a lot about waking folks to help them and getting disillusioned at the fact that they would rather stay asleep. If this is set up correctly one monkey will know 4 within 20 miles (using my example). In a region like mine, where Hurricanes are prevalent, a network of friends is indispensable, especially when they show up with chainsaws, water, ice, and a helping hand. While I applaud OPSEC and live by it strictly, there has to be a trust network built or else you are a lone crazy. I have a prepping group here of about 5 families, mine included. We are looking to add more to our group. We know when it gets thick and nasty, we will have each other to rely on. Not only that everyone brings extra firepower to the table...

    hank2222 likes this.
  12. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    We have a group coin, made from silver. It is a worry coin that stays in one's pocket and is used to identify folks. If someone in the group gives their coin to Madame X and her clan and she shows up on my door-step, she is taken in and assisted. A notice is posted in a lost and found board that notifies the owner that his coin as been located and can be retrieved by using the encryption software for instructions. Presently, we use the internet but in real tight security, may have to resort to encrypted removable media and dead-drops.
    BTPost, hank2222, Gator 45/70 and 4 others like this.
  13. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    How It could work......

    Ghrit makes very valid points in his comments. This is what I envision for such a Monkey Network. Far flung Groups would use HF Ham Radios for Comms, and these could be digital or voice, as the case maybe. OPSEC information can be moved via Digital Comms in Encrypted Format. Folks like "Me" who live way far out, and are not worth going after, because of location, can be the central Hub for such HF Networks, and put out nightly Broadcasts, via voice, that could pass ONEWAY coded info to those with just Receive capability. This was used in WWII by occupied Folks listening to BBC Nightly Broadcasts, very successfully.

    Then for those traveling, they could have OneWay or TwoWay HF Comms, including CB for wide area Comms, to the Hubs. If TwoWay, they just pass a voice coded Destination message, and receive general Group locations back via OneWay or TwoWay comms from a Hub Station. This gets them within the neighborhood of a fixed Groups local Comms. The mobiles then conduct non-secure voice coded Comms, with each local group as they do their approach, until they are within SECURE Comms range, and then use SECURE Comms, on the Monkey Channel to "Authenticate their Bonifidies" which the Hubs have sent both to the fixed and mobile Groups, via OneWay or TwoWay.
    Then it is up to the fixed Group to decide how to proceed from there, but they could pass the local Squad Comms Setup and bring them in, directly if these are KNOWN Monkeys with a track record between the groups, or pass PDNs, and setup a Face Meet, away from the fixed Groups location, to get in-person bonifidies from the mobile Group, before committing to any actions.

    This type system, makes for OPSEC for the fixed Groups, and allows for mobile Groups to use "maneuver after non-Secure Comms" to provide OPSEC while on the road. Fixed Groups can pass on the next fixed Groups AoO, in the Line of March for the mobile Group, and if they have TwoWay to a Hub, pass on the Bonifidies for the mobile Group, back to the Hub which can then pass those to the next fixed Group, via OneWay or TwoWay Comms. Once a mobile Group is in the system, they can have a sense of community, with the Monkey Underground.

    Another thought is something Tikka passed on to me, a while back. Anyone can learn Morse Code, and have a very small, low power HF CW Transmitter that could be Solar Powered, with them, and do OneWay broadcasts, in the blind, to listening Hubs, and fixed Groups, on specific Frequencies and Times, asking for Comms into the Network. These, can then be Replied To using OneWay from the Hubs. The mobile Group would use "maneuver after non-Secure Comms" to maintain OPSEC, while between Safe Havens. Fixed Groups would just maintain Receive Only watches, on these Comms, but can pass on the info to Hubs, via HF Coded or Secure Digital Comms.

    This isn't Rocket Science, and has all been done in the historical past. Yes, there are holes, and there is ALWAYS Risk, but It has worked in the past, and can be made to work in the future, by Monkeys who are willing to do the work. ...... YMMV.....
    hank2222 and Falcon15 like this.
  14. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    SC, I don't need a coin - I'd know you anywhere. You're the one with your sweetie, a guitar, a pack of dogs, and slew of weapons at your side!
    Tracy, ghrit, hank2222 and 3 others like this.
  15. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    equipment/supplies geocached at specified locations could also be passed on to monkeys who can provde their bonafides electronically without placing others at risk or necissitating face to face get togethers...
    BTPost and Falcon15 like this.
  16. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    I guess I should be clear. I love these ideas, and some great feedback. I was thinking very specifically in getting some ideas together and actually implementing such a system. For example...Clyde recently traveled to New York City. Could we, as a group, have been able to help get him home if the S HTF in a bad way and flights were down? I am struck by how many careers/professions require travel, many times hundreds, if not thousands of miles from home.
  17. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    On 9-11, I got stuck in Port of Spain, Trinidad for six months. When I finally did return, it was to an occupied country far different than the United States that I grew up in; far different than the United States that I had left only a few short months before. To give you an interesting cameo, Trinidadios thought Wall Street was going to collapse so they wouldn't accept dollars most places. Those that would accept dollars, only would exchange Trini dollars heads up for U.S. dollars (7.5 to 1 exchange rate). These little scalpers made out like a bandit. Credit cards would not function because there was no reliable communications with the banks. Most Trinidadios were too poor to understand the transactional value of precious metals as an actual form of exchange. It took several weeks for normalacy to return and much longer before the airlines resumed foreign flights back into the US. The phone lines were all tied up so there was no communications going on with the home-front. We did have some email on the Lana Rose using the SSB but even the sat=phone lines were all tied up. This was an interesting period of time that I would not like to repeat.
    Falcon15 and hank2222 like this.
  18. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    The whole concept intrigues me. I would think an ever changing password dependent on the date, and some well known and readily available text could be put to use as well for id verification. I am reasonably sure my location could prove valuable for a traveller coming from anywhere north or south of Gainesville, Florida or east or west of it. I am like 15 minutes from ISR-75, and 35 minutes from ISR-10. I am otherwise definately off the beaten track. Hell, I could probably hide 15 to 30 people and care for their needs fairly easily for short periods of time. Sorta like having a hurricane party except covert.
    Falcon15 likes this.
  19. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    VisuTrac and hank2222 like this.
  20. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    you left out smoke signals and specially piled rocks as emergency or back up msgs
    a simple base code that all know could work wonders in bad times
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary