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Mountain Lion killed with .22

Discussion in 'Turf and Surf Hunting and Fishing' started by Witch Doctor 01, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

  2. What??? But everyone knows a .22 is useless against anumals bigger than a rabbit! :D
  3. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Not something I would actively pursue hunting mountain lions with, but it does show you that a determined, practiced shooter can make it happen in the worst of circumstances.

    Practice now.
  4. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Nothing wrong with the lowly 55 grain boolit. A bud has killed probably a hundred deer with one. A fellow in the NC mountains hunts bears with one. Like you, not my favorite round for anything but it is capable of getting the job done.
  5. TXKajun

    TXKajun Monkey++

    I can hear it now. "See how destructive even the so-called minor caliber .22 is? Gotta ban all the rifles and handguns NOW!!"

  6. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    It can be done, one of the most popular hound hunter weapons is a Ruger single six in 22mag. The Key is the hounds and the tree.
    The ML has some of the thinnest skin out of all the Big game Species.
    There have been a few killed at my place with bows and rifles and handgun.
    You can hunt Grizzly too with a bb gun LOL
  7. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    You want to see pictures of the 400# Black Bear Hide, that alaskachick took with one shot from my 30M1Carbine.... We forgot to tell her that the rifle was to small for Black Bears..... Oh well. he is now a rug.....

    Ok Highspeedal2, I'll have to dig him out of storage and snap his picture and post it.....
  8. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    The answer is yes. Of course we want to see pics ;)

    Of stated bear as a rug too. I didn't win a bear tag and I want to drool over something.
  9. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Actually, the Lewis and Clark expedition carried a large caliber air rifle for hunting grizzly with. Look it up.
  10. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    I found reference to deer and antelope nothing on grizzly yet but i did find this:

    Recorded on August 31, 1803 (shown as August 30):
    "Left Pittsburgh this day at 11 ock with a party of 11 hands 7 of which are soldiers, a pilot and three young men on trial they having proposed to go with me throughout the voyage. Arrived at Bruno's Island 3 miles below halted a few minutes. went on shore and being invited on by some of the gentlemen present to try my airgun which I had purchased brought it on shore charged it and fired myself seven times fifty five yards with pretty good success; after which a Mr. Blaze Cenas being unacquainted with the management of the gun suffered her to discharge herself accedentaly the ball passed through the hat of a woman about 40 yards distanc cuting her temple about the fourth of the diameter of the ball; shee feel instantly and the blood gusing from her temple we were all in the greatest consternation supposed she was dead by [but] in a minute she revived to our enespressable satisfaction, and by examination we found the wound by no means mortal or even dangerous;….”
  11. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Reference to the Airgun in the Expedition Journals
    A firearm-based bias has produced a huge barrier to understanding the matter of the Lewis airgun. Firearms generally operate at full power but a pneumatic airgun can operate within a great range of power. Our understandings of what was recorded, and our expectations of what should have been recorded, in the expedition journals may have been deeply colored by the concept of an airgun operating only at high power. This bias especially is true of much of the modern consideration of the Girandoni airgun which has centered on, and assumed, operation at its potentially high power. The lack of experience by Captain Lewis with any airgun, coupled with a probable lack of information, would have been a tremendous factor in not using his airgun to its potential. Larry Hannusch, while now supporting the idea of a Girandoni for Lewis (personal communication, 17 November 2004), has [FONT=&quot] reflected that our new considerations that Lewis probably was unfamiliar with airguns, and that the airgun sometimes may have been operated at less than potential power, got him to thinking in new directions, including appreciating [/FONT]that there is a HUGE difference between an airgun’s potential firepower and its practical firepower.
    We know that Captain Lewis had real problems with the operation of his airgun; probably even more problems than were recorded in the journals or by visitor Rodney. Just the problems of operation and hazardous use at Brunot Island and Wheeling, before the wilderness phase of the expedition even began, may have been the keys to why we don’t read about the features, great firepower and wonderful action of the Girandoni airgun. With just those bad experiences in mind, would you bet your life, or even the critical success of hunting, on a gun that had so performed? One would expect that Lewis would have made the decision, after the problems of those first two shooting shows, even before leaving St. Louis, that the main value of the airgun would be for demonstrations to impress the natives. Let those potentially dangerous viewers admire this strange gun and “dread the magic of the owners” while he, and the other members of the expedition, may have been quietly unimpressed with it. They may have considered it only as a rather undependable “new fangled gadget”, rather than as a wonderful tool over which to wax eloquent! So, it proceeded on, perhaps only working after Lewis would clean and loosen up the striker rod and valve spindle and pump it, out of view, only as needed to produce a good show
    Along the same line, there is a possibility that Captain Lewis, and the expedition party, may not have taken the airgun seriously. Therefore they would not have been motivated to regularly contribute the large amount of hand pumping necessary to bring it to its full potential. (Even modern users of old air canes find it exhausting to apply even the roughly 300 strokes necessary to charge their small reservoirs). This would explain many things, from continued poor performance, to lack of comment, and to a lack of serious consideration of the airgun for hunting or defense[25]. This gun, which had the potential to be such a deadly, high-firepower “assault rifle” (Gaylord, 1997) may not have been given a fair chance and/or it may not have been suited to solitary use on a wilderness expedition without proper training, the presence of experienced airgun personnel, and a wheeled air pump and/or a running supply of pre-charged bottles. (We should note here that while a Girandoni could be compared to an "assault rifle" in comparison to the muzzle-loading black powder firearms around the beginning of the nineteenth century, it truly would be absurd to so consider such a gun two centuries later in our present period of rapid fire and full automatic firearms!)
    I think that it is very probable that the early problems with the airgun served to teach Lewis how to use and maintain it. Ernie Cowan and Richard Keller (personal communication, 3 November 2004) feel that the airgun was fully appreciated and that pumping it up to high power, to maximize the impression of the demonstrations, would not have been that unlikely, especially if one considers the spare time that may have been available at times and that one could use the services of a slave and line soldiers. The expedition crew would just have taken it for granted after first learning of its features, operation, potentials, and shortcomings. The leaders and scribes of this journey commented very little on the details of other expedition items. Their charge was to record the findings of the trip, so it would be understandable if they did not do more than note some of the events involving the airgun. And, there are major time gaps in the journals.
    As for hunting, it is possible that the airgun was not always up to top power, and even if it was, it would still have been less powerful than trusted and familiar firearms. Hunting was not a matter of sport for these men. While a serious wound , even a wound resulting from a shot from a partially empty air reservoir, would take an enemy soldier out of battle, only quickly lethal wounds were appropriate to hunting. Lewis apparently did not do much hunting and, wisely fearing it misfiring due to its hazardous condition, plus wear and breakage, it is probable that he would not have allowed the airgun to leave his side. It was just too hazardous for regular handling by others and it had just too much possible vital strategic importance to be subject to breakage during frequent use or to be exposed to too much familiarity by the natives. Only his trusted and bright partner, “Captain” Clark, was ever also allowed to fire it.

    It is apparent that many Indians, if they had seen such an “assault rifle” in action, would have been anxious to get aboard the expedition boats to see if the group had a supply of these amazing guns. Captain Lewis always was careful to keep them from fully looking around on the boats. If the trip leaders were flaunting a rapid fire Girandoni, especially if they were careful never to let the natives see the gun run out of balls, then “dread of the owners” of guns which apparently could fire an infinite number of times with incredible speed, probably was a major strategic factor in this little group of explorers never being attacked during the long duration of the trip.[26] If any Indian tribe had taken the expedition's weapons they would have become the most powerful tribe in the regions. That the mere presence of the airgun could restrain hostile action was demonstrated by Captain Clark's note of September 25, 1804 concerning the Teton Sioux after he had noted that they feared that these Indians were detaining them in order to rob them or worse: "Capt. Lewis shewed them the air gun. Then we told them that we had a great ways to goe &that we did not want to be detained any longer". Surely this meant that the airgun should be considered as a strong reason why they should not be further detained. Clark's thinking was again revealed by his writing on April 3, 1806, on their return journey when they were dealing with troublesome tribes on the Columbia: "Lewis fired the Air gun which astonished them in Such a manner that they were orderly and kept a proper distance during the time they Continued with him...". Clark clearly is saying that the airgun was the only thing that kept the Indians at a safe distance. The Indian method of attack was to rush their enemy after the defenders fired their single-shot guns. These records are some of the strongest evidences that the airgun was a Girandoni system repeater; it seems almost impossible that a single-shot air rifle of relatively small caliber would have had such intimidation value.

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