Muslims of America

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Silversnake, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. Silversnake

    Silversnake Silverback

    This appears to be a threat all should be aware of.

    Taken from Law Enforcement Today. Muslims Of The Americas | Law Enforcement Today

    “They are asleep. They are a bomb. Here is the scariest part … Anything can happen with MOA at any time.” Those are the words of a young Muslim man named Ali Aziz. Who is he? And what is this dangerous “MOA” that he refers to?

    The existence of dozens of Islamic guerrilla warfare training camps located in rural neighborhoods throughout America, and the serious crimes they have already committed—and are planning to commit—should be of concern to all law enforcement officers.
  2. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    The news peeps make it seem as if it's something new. They've been around years. I can't speak for other states but here in Texas the "deer hunters" have "noticed"them on a regular and ongoing basis. They are clearly terrorist training schools and only taken off the public terror watch list for pc reasons.
  3. Silversnake

    Silversnake Silverback

    The timing of this story is interesting. TPTB may be trying to tone down criticism of NSA domestic surveillance.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
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  4. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Considering the source of that particular article, I don't think there is anything sinister in the timing of its appearance. I think that if TPTB were actually using news of the MOA to mollify American anger at the domestic surveillance program, it would be front page news, covered by the major networks, and accompanied by some flashy arrests and weapons confiscations.

    News of these sorts of organizations, and some of the nuts who claim affiliation to them, actually do provide a great deal of justification for the types of domestic programs for which NSA has recently been lambasted. Not all of the threats to the citizens of this country come from outside.

    And those threats, even when hiding behind religion, don't necessarily speak with an Arabic or Urdu accent. The vast majority of MOA members are homegrown Americans, many of whom converted to Islam and joined the organization through prison outreach ministries.

    It's sad to see any religion - be it Islam, or Christianity, or other - used as justification for the violent acts of those bent on harming their fellow man; and belonging to any organization, religious or otherwise, carries with it the possibility of being painted with the same brush as the nut jobs who also belong to that organization. That's the problem with labels, whether one be on the applying end or receiving end. Everyone gets painted with same brush.

    This news report and video seems to do a fairly decent job of providing a balanced view of at least one of the MOA communities:
    The Muslims of America
  5. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Lots of muzzies all around. In our schools, military, business, etc. and they are as well armed as any here--probably more. When the time comes they will create havoc within our nation. The military/LEO/etc will not--cannot contain/suppress them. Who does that leave----? Does the word militia come to mind?
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  6. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

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  7. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    When the government fails the will of the people

    The people will
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  8. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    We have to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here. Oh, the people are tired of that line, ok. They're here, They're here!! Oh my God we need to pass new laws so that we can deal with this threat before they are rampaging through our cities, raping our women and killing our kids!!!! Let's go wipe em out, send in the fed jackboots, let's give em more money and power to deal with this terrible threat!!

    ohnoohnoohnoohno[BSf]Hmm, this "news" article was written by a guy relying on an "unnamed" source and who just happens to have a book to sell. Please. In the 50's it was the sneaky, sinister American commies we had to fear. In the 80's it was those Libyan terrorist hit squads roaming freely though our land.Then in the 90's it was the home grown wacko militia guys who were going to blow up your local city hall. Now it's those shadowy muzzies. Ohhh noo, be afraid, be very afraid.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
  9. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I agree,

    I would have to say that there are not a few professing Muslims and Christians in Australia and America who have no idea who their God is and what his actual desires and intentions are either.

    I would also have to say, that both American Muslims and American Christians have a common interest in supporting the US Constitution's 2nd Ammendment, if only that both groups have a minority of nutters who have a malicious interest in infringing the Constitutional rights of the other.

    It cannot be assumed that all Christians are good, or bad,or would not come to the aid of Muslims or Jews in mortal danger.

    Minneapolis Gun Owner Saves Muslim Shopkeeper.Selling the Second Amendment by Gregory Smith | Selling the Second Amendment by Gregory Smith

    It cannot be assumed that all Muslims are good, or bad, or would not come to the aid of Jews or Christians in mortal danger.

    Revealed: American family rescued by hero of attack on Nairobi's Westgate mall - Telegraph

    Nairobi mall attack: American family in emotional reunion with rescue hero Abdul Haji - Telegraph

    -06 Said:

    Substitute Christians for 'muzzies', and the same argument may be made pretty much to the same logically absurd conclusion. I'm not convinced that there's much to choose between extremist, fundamentalist Christians, extremist fundamentalist Muslims, or extremist fundamentalist Jews, to be quite frank. I can live with extremist fundamentalist Pastafarians, provided that they keep their beliefs to their own dining rooms and kitchens, and don't force feed me their faction's one true pasta sauce against my will.

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  10. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    When we have to start living under Sharia rules/law in our own neighborhoods the opinions may change a bit. It is a growing problem and the longer we ignore it the larger/stronger it will become. It is the fastest growing "religion" in the world. For every one new church building going up in England there are 30 mosques. Whole sections of some cities even in the US are increasingly muzzie controlled. Lets just keep our heads in the sand, ignore them, and maybe they will be satisfied with living under our constitution, abiding by our laws of religious freedoms, and practicing diversity as we do.
    Moatengator, Silversnake and oldawg like this.
  11. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Agreed. Extremism is extremism, religious or otherwise; and religious fundamentalism, regardless of the particular flavor, has the nasty habit of leading to bigotry and extremism. I condemn, and resist attempts by, any group that seeks to force their agenda upon me, whether they are narrow minded gun control fanatics, or narrow minded religious fanatics - be they Muslim, Christian, or Jewish.

    I don't wish to, and refuse to, live under the dictates of a Muslim mullah, or a Christian preacher, or a California Democratic Senator. At the same time, I wouldn't mind having a Muslim mullah as a neighbor (as long as he mutes that early morning call to prayer), or a Christian preacher as a neighbor. I do have to draw the line at California Senators though. I do have some standards.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  12. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Islam may be the fastest growing religion in the world, but I think that Muslim fundamentalist extremists have more to fear from us than we do from them, in the form of our culture of freedom (what of it we have left these days). Personal freedom and capitalism are very seductive, and that is why the internet and western publications are heavily censored in fundamentalist and authoritarian regimes - the fear that their populations will come over to the dark side, and start thinking and acting for themselves. It has always been so. I am reminded of an episode in classical Greece when an Athenian army, in Sparta to assist the Spartans in putting down a helot revolt, were sent packing by the Spartan government, an authoritarian regime. Their reasoning? The ideas of democracy and freedom being spread by the Athenian citizen soldiers were a greater danger to the culture of Sparta than was a full scale slave revolt.

    All religious fundamentalism is a backlash against those who have begun to fight their way free of Plato's cave, and have begun to see the light and to think for themselves. The more the fundamentalists try to close the opening of the cave, the more pressure they create, and the greater will be the explosion into the light. Sure, there are a few nut jobs within the Muslim community calling for the imposition of Sharia, upon at least the American Muslim population; but it is a losing proposition, and represents the desperate cries of a few who are watching their power and influence wane in the face of western culture.

    Look at what has happened to China, not necessarily a religious example, but an example of the effect of contact with western culture. Every day for the past thirty years, they have become more and more like the west that their leaders despised. What happened to the Japanese Samurai culture after prolonged contact with western culture? They traded in their swords for business degrees. The Muslim communities of all middle eastern countries, and of this country, are in the midst of the same clash of cultures, and it scares the pants off of the religious extremists. Even if they batten down the hatches and pull up the drawbridge, they have already lost the war. The freedom of thought will win out, eventually.

    There. That's my optimistic drivel for the day.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  13. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I am quite confident that the American Indians felt much the same way....(Those damned Christians have churches springing up all over the place, and they have the damned hide to impose their monotheistic religion upon us...and in exchange for saving them from starvation (by teaching those Bible carrying Puritans how to grow corn) what unappreciative ingrates! On top of that, they conduct religious and cultural genocide upon us poor begnighted animists / polytheists with the noble intention of saving us from sin and the devil...yes I can see how sticking our heads in the sand would be harmful to our interests!)

    The Puritans and the Indians

    I would suggest that instead of treating Muslims as pariahs, treating them with suspicion, distrust, and may be worth considering engaging with Muslims as human beings, It may be worth drawing Muslims into community institutions such that they have an investment in keeping those institutions strong and vital than in desiring to import institutions from their own cultures of origin. No need to Ignore Muslims. Influence and persuade Muslims to value American secular institutions and the importance of maintaining the separation of church (mosque / temple / Synagogue) and state.

    The important thing to remember is that many Muslims fled the kind of intolerance and conflict (Sunni vs Shiite) that was endemic in the countries that they came from, and have no real desire to recreate it in the USA. I am sure that there is much in common between Muslim Caliphatists and Christian Dominionists...the key is for the moderates in both religions to work together to prevent the fundamentalist extremists from getting any traction within their respective communities.

    Sharpening swords and cutlasses whilst muttering how everything is going to hell in a hand-basket since the latest lot of exotic people arrived in the neighbourhood, is probably only going to result in engendering the kind of sword and cutlass sharpening culture where the solutions to community problems, will, in the first instance, become resolved by well sharpened swords and cutlasses: Led and followed by the highly intolerant of both sides. I'm all for attending a Halal BBQ if my hosts reciprocate by attending an NRA meeting with me (or its Australian equivalent).
    tulianr likes this.
  14. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Chelly, a friend of mine is the local head of the communist party. He knows we will disagree on politics, and will discuss points across problems, but he knows he will not convert me to his way of thinking as well. But it makes him no less a friend. He helps me when I need it, as I have helped him.
    In fact, it was his NY parents, who used my generator when all power was knocked out there. And he supplied me with the computer I needed to get back on line here. (Besides my phone)
    Being a Muslim, is not a threat, being a Muslim intent on converting me....IS. When and IF it starts to effect my life, then and only then is it time for action.
    My government seems to want to treat me as a threat, not yet caught. In doing so, they are creating a threat that may never have existed, had they treated me as a human being, and a citizen of the Constitution.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  15. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  16. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Of course, I can see how wrong I was to look at an entire "religion" as dangerous. Even our "prez" said that he would side with the muzzies should "push come to shove" and he claims to be a Christian. Wonder how many other mild mannered/moderate muzzies would do the same. Just because muzzies "guide book" advocates world domination as their goal it should not alarm us. Many European cities are already controlled by sharia law and the police do not even go there anymore. No need as every thing is controlled by the peaceful minded people residing there. Their lifestyles are so exemplary as to inspire me to elevate them above any suspicious thoughts. Nothing evil there so nothing to worry about and nothing to fear from such peaceful and contented people. I am a changed man--thank you for opening my eyes to the potential of full fellowship with them.
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  17. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

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  18. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Goodness, you'll be dancin' with atheists! ;)
  19. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    You mean they dance with Southern Baptists--lol.
  20. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    If atheists can dance with (Modern) Orthodox Jews, (even though daughter and father), Southern Baptists shouldn't be too much of a stretch.


    The bat mitzvah of a Berkeley atheist — my daughter | j. the Jewish news weekly of Northern California

    but there are rules! ;)

    Via:Funny Christian Holy Spirit Dancing Rules | Irreligious Religion

    but more importantly,

    the following are pretty good rules for anyone who wishes to dance....regardless of the beliefs or disbeliefs of the other dance partner.

    Via: A Dancer's Life - “Golden Rules to Dance By”
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