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N.R.A. worked against progun legislation

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Tango3, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    From the Sipsey street irregulars blog:

    Tuesday, July 13, 2010

    The Latest Disclosure of Sellout from the National (Pistol?) Association. NRA tried to get rifles prohibited from national parks in the Coburn Bill.

    No sellout of the NRA surprises me anymore. None. From RedState:

    Shocking Emails Show National Rifle Association Worked to Prohibit Rifles From National Parks

    What will they change their middle initial to now?

    Posted by Erick Erickson

    Tuesday, July 13th at 2:35PM EDT

    You know things are bad for the National Rifle Association when it has to get the New York Times to run a puff piece on it.

    But in their zeal to get a puff piece out there as well as their collaboration with the left on the DISCLOSE Act, the NRA has angered a number of people on Capitol Hill.

    Shocking new e-mails obtained by RedState show that the National Rifle Association actively opposed and sought to undermine gun-rights legislation offered in the Senate by Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK).

    The New York Times article contains this paragraph:

    With a push from the N.R.A., a popular bill last year restricting credit card lenders came with an odd add-on: It also allowed people to carry loaded guns in national parks.

    This is referring to legislation by Senator Tom Coburn, which would have allowed rifles and pistols into national parks — legislation the NRA actively tried to undermine. In other words, in getting their puff piece written by the New York Times, the NRA is taking credit for things the NRA actively tried to stop. That is not the whole story.

    A congressional aide tells me, “You’re absolutely right that many conservatives view the NRA as an organization that represents itself rather than the 2nd amendment. For instance, the NRA was livid when Senator Coburn introduced the guns in the park amendment without their permission. The NRA worked to undermine the amendment.”

    Specifically, the NRA tried to weaken the guns in parks language working with House Democratic leadership (after it passed the Senate overwhelmingly). The Coburn language returned to the states complete authority to determine firearm possession laws in national parks and refuges. This change mirrored similar regulations governing firearm possession for the Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest Service. In some instances, this would result in park and refuge visitors being allowed to carry handguns and rifles in national parks. Ironically, the National “RIFLE” Association wanted to change it so that Coburn’s legislation did not include “rifles” or other long firearms.

    Another source familiar with the behind the scenes machinations on the DC voting rights bill tells me that despite the claims in the New York Times article, “the NRA had nothing to do with the addition of the DC Gun language to the DC voting rights bill. Senator Ensign did not give the NRA a heads-up for fear that Reid would block the Amendment, because the NRA would have ratted Ensign out to Reid. They may have helped in the House to make sure the DC voting rights bill include gun rights language, yet they were not part of any pre-Amendment offering strategy sessions.”

    Why? For fear that they would rat out the Republican effort to Harry Reid.

    RedState has obtained a series of emails between the NRA and congressional aides wherein the NRA is clearly pushing for a Nancy Pelosi backed language to undermine Tom Coburn backed language. In the chain of emails, the NRA says it wants a House version because Senator Coburn’s would have unintended consequences. What were those unintended consequences?

    From: NRA
    To: Congressional Aide
    Sent: Mon May 18, 2009
    Subject: Re: Congress Poised to Restore Common Sense Second Amendment Rights

    The Coburn amendment to H.R. 627 is open to criticism and potential problems since it is not limited to concealed firearms, or even concealable firearms. Rifles, shotguns, legally possessed machineguns or destructive devices, could all be carried if the person is not prohibited and the person complies with state law.

    Two very important points to consider on the language:

    1. Limiting to concealed handguns squares with the motive for the federal rule change to legalize self-defense in national parks and wildlife refuges - i.e. the growth of right to carry states.

    2. Concealed (and therefore concealable) handguns are less likely than rifles or shotguns to be used for poaching - unlike in national forests and BLM lands where hunting is frequent and legal.​

    Note the NRA uses the words “destructive devices.”

    Let’s ignore the fact that the inability to conceal a rifle might actually be of benefit to park rangers should poaching happen. Instead, let’s focus on the National Rifle Association trying to prohibit rifles from national parks.

    What. The. Heck?
    Posted by Dutchman6 at <a class="timestamp-link" href="http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/07/latest-disclosure-of-sellout-from.html" rel="bookmark" title="permanent link"><abbr class="published" title="2010-07-13T20:29:00-07:00">8:29 PM</abbr> 3 comments

    Sipsey Street Irregulars
  2. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Yep, the last few rounds of "The NRA Soap Opera" has pushed me to joining GOA and I don't think I'll re-new my NRA membership.
  3. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    one of the 3 comments is interesting if not a little "tinfoily":

    If we let them turn us against our most influential advocates, who will stand up to counter the gun-grabbing political elitists?

    Seriously, can you not see what is happening? This campaign of anti-NRA publicity is playing right into the hands of Rep. McCarthy and her supporters.

    The NRA is the 800-pound gorilla that no one in Congress dares to oppose. If you continue to believe the misinformation, distortions, and sometimes outright deceptions being propogated, the only thing you will achieve is to accelerate the country down the road to civil war.

    Is the NRA perfect? Hell, no! Nothing in this world is perfect. They are still the single most effective consumer advocacy group in Washington, bar none. Undermining the NRA undermines all of us.

    Continue pressing the NRA to support the agenda you want them to achieve, and be ever vigilant against the opposition's blatant attempts to discredit them and divide them from their members. Opposing the NRA is the job of the Brady Campaign. Why should we do the Brady's work for them?
    mtncharlie likes this.
  4. NVBeav

    NVBeav Monkey+++

    ^^^^True. The NRA needs to have a big house cleaning and kick out those in bed with Dirty Harry Reid. They've been sucking up to DH recently because he's got a huge amount of campaign money, and DH needs the NRA to pull a re-election bid in Nevada against a very Conservative opponent - one that the Socialists in the Senate would hate to see in office. I might still give the NRA a modicum of support, but the GOA is going to get the lion's share.

    If you shop at places like Midway, JG Sales, LaRue, and many other great stores that support the NRA, let them know what they are doing so they can influence bringing the NRA back in line with the majority of gun owners. NRA seems to follow the money and is more influenced the pocketbook than by us "little people" raising a tiny stink.

    Anti-gun Endorsements Don't Help Us!
    House Narrowly Passes Gag Order (DISCLOSE) Act

    DH was also idolized in a recent NRA Publication, The Rifleman (the one with the XDm .45acp on the cover), with pictures of him and president La Pierre.

    If you're not convinced of the NRA's waffling, check it out for yourself:
    "If Sen. Reid loses, the next candidate for Majority Leader is very likely to be Chuck Schumer or Dick Durbin—two of the most anti-gun U.S. Senators in history!" Doesn't that sound a lot like Socialist rhetoric?? Sarcasm on: The boogyman might get us if we elect a pro-2nd Amendment Conservative into office instead of a self-serving Socialist like DH.
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member


    A few rotten apples can have a very ill affect -it is important to always remember that everything is a constant battle. Just as the United States was infiltrated (continually since before day one 1776), just as each and every political party has been infiltrated, as charities, foundations, media, legislatures, judiciaries, police, military, local governments have been infiltrated and gradually steered away from liberty -groups such as the NRA are certainly at the top of the list as well.
  6. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    Overall, they've done great things.
    They absolutely do play Washington politics. They give with one hand while taking with another.
    From everything I've seen, they give a finger and take an arm.
  7. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    The solution is not to discard millions of uninformed but loyal voters/members/supporters. The NRA and the Republican Party need to be 'hijacked' back to what they should be, and taken back from the pansies that have infiltrated them. Abandoning them might feel better but you will not accomplish your goals that way. You need to put those millions of uninformed but loyal supporters/voters/members to work for the RIGHT things, rather than foolishly trying to defeat them.
    There are way too many people who simply will not learn no matter how hard you try. Put them to work for you instead.
  8. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    This ^

    I think that overall, the NRA is on our side. What you have to remember is that sometimes, in battle, you have to give a little ground to better position yourself and your forces to win the war. Maybe having slung MGs in national parks would look bad to the moderates and swing votes in the wrong direction. Remember that it was those same moderates that allowed the 1994 crime bill to happen. Overreaction to gang violence led to some of the most retarded laws ever.

    The AWB has expired, it constantly gets knocked down every time the libtards try again... often by other liberals, the DC gun ban was declared unconstitutional, you can carry in state parks concealed according to state laws, and now the 2nd Amendment is applied to the states (which we all knew, but now libtards are forced to accept). The NRA helped with all this.
  9. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    The "absolutists" like GOA are, in principle, correct but don't accomplish nearly as much.
    The time for that stance was 50 years ago when this gun control first started creeping up on us.
    That was the time to stand firm and rebut every challenge with an exclamation of "2A!"
  10. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    You guys have given me some food for thought.. Perhaps I'll maintain membership in both. 1 for the absolutist in me and 1 for the diplomat in me.
  11. NVBeav

    NVBeav Monkey+++

    "Absolutist", "Diplomat"

    Perhaps you're listening the Dirty Harry school of spin-time. The only reason DH has voted anything pro-gun is for his re-election. Period. He's admitted as much in one of the Nevada newspapers.

    If you haven't watched C-Span, perhaps you need a little lesson in ultra-left-wing strategies: If you need to be re-elected, you check to see if your vote isn't needed for your side's outcome. Then you vote for whatever will get you the most votes.

    Perhaps you haven't see H.R. 5175 and the muzzling of all Conservative groups -- the NRA didn't fight it because they got themselves an "exemption". The GOA turned down the exemption because they're "absolutist" and "undiplomatic". Your 1st Amendment rights are going down the toilet with the NRA's blessing, and you want to be what?

    May your lightly diplomatic chains wear easily on your ankles.
  12. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    They opposed H.R. 5175 as of June 10th. Did something change?

  13. NVBeav

    NVBeav Monkey+++

    "I was for it before I was against it." Where have we seen that?... Maybe the NRA fought the bill before they got their exemption; they're mum now.

    These links were posted earlier:
    Anti-gun Endorsements Don't Help Us!
    House Narrowly Passes Gag Order (DISCLOSE) Act

    The NRA is one of those orgs that would be a travesty to lose. I would just like to see them get back into the fold - you can't negotiate with those whose motive is more than the taking of our freedoms.
  14. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    Well that's a shame. I'd like to hear their POV on the matter. There's a lot of unconstitutional stuff passing through these days and maybe they're relying on its failure to pass muster - a tactic I'm not comfortable with, but then again, Chicago was a huge gamble too.

    They've done a whole lot more slick dealing than negotiation in the past and have gained a whole lot for a little ground given up. People freaked out at the AWB in the 90s' and failed to see that so little was sacrificed compared to what was saved. I hope this is a similar tactic.
  15. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Democrat creed:
    When you get a chance, take everything you can get. Two steps forward, one step back. Never compromise on anything if you can help it. Insist on the very worst possible leftist stuff, so that compromise comes closer to what YOU want than what THEY want.

    Republican creed:
    When you get a chance, lay back, go with the flow, don't make waves. Accept compromise (hell, seek it out. Never get everything your side should want, it looks bad). Just try to not mess up, we don't really believe in what we're doing, so it would be a mistake to get anything undone the other side did.



    100% the same for the NRA, "Never get everything you want; the rubes will stop paying".
  16. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    The reason that it's been that way is because we've never had control over the "mind control tube". They always have.
    Huge difference.
  17. bigfootstalker

    bigfootstalker Monkey+

    Stuff like this is exactly why I haven't renewed my membership. The NRA hasn't been the same since Heston left.
  18. tjeffries

    tjeffries Monkey+

    I miss Heston too, but warts and all its still beneficial to have that 800 pound gorilla in our corner. If enough members contact them and make their displeasure known, they will react, we just have to keep them in line as much as we can, and vote in better members to their BOD.

    How much compromise would they have to do if ALL 90 million gun owners were members?
  19. NVBeav

    NVBeav Monkey+++

    I have couple friends that dropped membership because the NRA keeps asking for money like a chain-smoking TV preacher. If I could support the local NRA trainers w/o any of the money going to their national org, I might consider. Ever since Dirty Harry Reid "gave" them $61 million for that public rifle range facility in Las Vegas, they've been mum about supporting a true 2nd Amendment candidate running against Reid. That's why their letters hit my trash can so quickly.
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    The continuous irritation of asking for money is enough to make the stout of heart abandon them. The NRA is still the 800 lb gorilla on "our" side. Trashing the letters is a small price to pay for the lobbying done, I think.
    Brokor likes this.
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