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Navy: Ship Stuck in Philippines Used Faulty Map

Discussion in 'Functional Gear & Equipment' started by HK_User, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Due to the Digital Maps a ship ran aground! I guess the REAL Charts of old and Loran C really did work.

    Your Survival may depend on a Compass and a map from Texaco!

    Just a warning to those who depend on the NEW World of Diggie things, Keep your old maps and charts, never fully trust any electronic navigation.

    Navy: Ship Stuck in Philippines Used Faulty Map | Military.com

    "The Navy said in a statement that a review of Digital Nautical Charts, which are used for safe navigation by all U.S. Navy ships, found they contained inaccurate data and may have been a factor in the Guardian's grounding. As a result, Navigator of the Navy Rear Adm. Jonathan White released precautionary guidance to all Pacific Fleet ships, saying that "initial review of navigation data indicates an error in the location of Tubbataha Reef" in the Philippines.
    "While the erroneous navigation chart data is important information, no one should jump to conclusions," said Pacific Fleet spokesman Capt. Darryn James. "It is critical that the U.S. Navy conduct a comprehensive investigation that assesses all the facts surrounding the Guardian grounding."
    The Avenger-class ship had just completed a port call in Subic Bay, a former American naval base west of the capital, Manila, and was en route to Indonesia and then on to East Timor to participate in a training exercise when it hit the reef, about 128 kilometers (80 miles) southeast of Palawan Island.
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Among the reasons the Philippine gov't is upset is that the ship's deck officer referred them to the embassy when the p coasties informed them that the ship was headed straight for the reef. That, with the grounding will end the skipper's career. The fines will be monumental.
    tulianr likes this.
  3. KAS

    KAS Monkey++

    yea has anyone not gottem bad directions from mapquest....
  4. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Any seaman lookout could have seen the reef.

    Too much trust in electronics and not enough training in the crows nest, after all they were leaving port and were not in the open ocean.

    Gotta luv electronics.
    tulianr likes this.
  5. Mechwolf

    Mechwolf Monkey+

    Fucking Google Maps screwing up directions again. huh?[shiz]
  6. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey++

    If they just let the captain take his wife she would give them directions.
    tulianr, Harbin and BTPost like this.
  7. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Nah, they got female officers onboard now to do that.
  8. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    These are very very few discrepinceises between the Navy's Paper Charts, and their Electronic Charts, as they are generated from the same Master Database. This is also true of the NOAA Charts, both paper and electronic. I suspect the issue is that the Master Database was flawed, in the first place, and it wasn't a known fault, except by the locals. This is why local Pilots are important, and many Navel Skippers refuse to use local Pilots, because they think they "Know it All"... Things like this END Carreers in the Military.....
    tulianr likes this.
  9. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Been there, Paper Charts good, these Reefs have been charted for hundreds of years.

    If nothing else all the Dive Boats should have been a clue!

    Tubbataha is composed of two huge coral atolls – the north atoll and the south atoll – and the Jessie Beazley Reef, a smaller coral structure about 20 kilometres north of the atolls.
    The reefs of Tubbataha and Jessie Beazley are considered part of Cagayancillo, a remote island municipality roughly 130 kilometers to the northeast, inhabited mainly by fisherfolk.

    tmo_map1. facebook.
    tulianr likes this.
  10. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Ignoring local advice, radioed to them in plenty of time was above average stupid. Reduce speed for a starter and double the sonar watch, go active, and do what should have been done with the fathometer and charts. Granted, the pix that have been published clearly show breakers, but it's equally obvious that the tide was low with that much hull showing, and in a calm sea there may not be breakers at high tide. A fiberglas over wood hull will break, not ride up very far on an obstacle.

    Just plain dumb seamanship.
    oldawg likes this.
  11. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    CROWS NEST??? Served 1967 to 1994. Only ship with a crows nest those years would be the USS Constitution (old ironsides). Forward Lookouts during those days 67 - 94 on flying bridge. Only 10 - 12 ft higher than bridge or bridge wings. It was 2am when they hit the reef! O Dark 30am!
  12. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

  13. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    yes those forward lookouts would be E-1 thru E-3 at most. 2am hardly awake I would guess. Officer on Bridge watch and Co will garner most of the wrath of the upper brass.
  14. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    In doubt? Remember this is a Mine Sweeper or as they say now days mine counter measures ship.

    Note the rather large Crows Nest used to spot mines, just in case the radar fails.

    Their track would have been laid out long before they left port. My guess is that they would have had an active plot going due to all the traffic in that area and if so sombody should have noted all the dive boats and fishing boats just before dark and the plot would have continued and been clear that there was a spot out front that had unusal traffic. That being the Reef area.

    Ah well, a new CO will have better handle on his people's seamanship.
    tulianr likes this.
  15. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    When I am wrong, I am wrong. Minesweeps are not my surface skimmer of choice. Sorta like jumping out of a perfectly good airplane, or going down to near crush depths in the ocean in a sewerpipe. My rides ranged from 2 ancient gator freighters, 2 destroyer repair ships, a heavy gun cruiser, guided missle cruisers, guided missle destroyers, and destroyer escorts aka fast frigates.
  16. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Fast Frigates. Ever served on the USS McCloy?

    I have a friend that was an ET on a Mine Sweep tender, you'd a liked this because it was an old LST with the front doors welded shut. So we stay in contact.

    No doubt there will be a new Navagiator too as well as a number of others reduced in rank or thrown out.

    Piss Poor Semanship all other excuses need not apply.
  17. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Knox Class frigates FF1073 Robert E Peary 1976-78, FF1082 Elmer Montgomery 1979-81, FF1078 Joseph Hewes 1984-86, FF1072 Blakely 1086-88
  18. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Just wondered, we took a herd of Boy Scouts from Houston to Norfolk and spent a week on the McCloy FF 1038.

    There was not that much difference in the ages of the young sailors and the Boy Scouts. Third day and crew was getting ready for Liberty and one of my sons asked "Dad they said they were going over to the beach, can we go?

    Days of the locker club and loose ladies, so I suggested they stay on board with Dad.
    My Belt Buckle let the crew know I had a bit of experience and they just laughed and walked off the brow.

    Anyway, why not go to sea in a vessel designed to sink and then return to the surface?
  19. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    What's the big deal? As a gator we ran aground all the time and on purpose..............something the marines greatly appreciated . I guess those blue water guys have different rules?
  20. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    I guess it only matters if you don't have the equipment to get "un stuck". Something to do with having an anchor in the rear and not laying on your side. That sure messes up the Mess Deck.
    oldawg likes this.
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