New around here...

Discussion in 'Off Grid Living' started by Hillbilly549, Mar 14, 2019.


  1. Hillbilly549

    Hillbilly549 Monkey

    It is an adventure, and having a wife and young daughter amplifies that. My wife is all on board but I think it's going to be a bit more of a culture shock than maybe she envisions it is going to be. I wouldn't want to be alone, but if I were, I could survive happily in a 10x20 with a couple panels and batteries just for a few lights.....but that's not reality. Good thing is that she's prepared for a year or so of doing without in a circumstance similar to that, so I figure by the time that's over we'll have a better idea of what they can TRULY live without. We shall see!
     
  2. sourdough145

    sourdough145 Holder of the M1 thumb award...

    I remember where we were living years ago a cable tv salesman came to our door pitching cable...
    Took my wife three tries telling him we did not own a tv before it sank into his thought patterns, should have seen his face. It's amazing these days how much money goes for "necessities" like cable, cell phones and such. Not to mention parasitic power drains....

    I will say Internet is pretty much a need as even getting a DMV form is online. Nice thing these days is the fairly cheap last mile wireless WAN links are available today. Plus you can get most anything via Amazon...

    Wonderful to have wife good with the project. It makes all the difference! Married more than 47 years, to the same gal, and she still seems to want me around. Imagine that.

    Best wishes.

    (If you have any specific questions you can PM me at esar145@mail.com)
     
  3. BenP

    BenP Monkey++

    As long as you have a little generator to recharge your batteries you will be fine. I started with 100ah of 24v LifePO4 batteries and 1200w of solar panels and it worked great. I eventually moved up to 300ah batteries and 2400w so I would not need to run the generator as much.
     
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  4. Hillbilly549

    Hillbilly549 Monkey

    Ben, my biggest hang up right now is that I know that I eventually want to run 48v and I don't want to be buying components twice, but now I'm thinking I might start with a system like you just stated for our tiny/temp cabin and I'm sure I'll have a use for it later. Probably just convert the small cabin to a small barn/shop when we build the permanent cabin. I tend to over think things as some have pointed out! I hate wasting money, but sometimes I cost myself more by being hesitant and not just getting it done....
     
  5. sourdough145

    sourdough145 Holder of the M1 thumb award...

    So true not many do due all the math. It's not just the panels ageing, sizing for irradiance, battery bank sizing, wire voltage drop, fault protection, gen backup charging and just plain overall efficiency. I have done the math and have not found one kit optimum, good but not what they could be. None of mine were done without tweaks. My last one just the underground wire pull using suggested wire size would have lost me nearly 400 watts at full output. Can't have that... Every system is unique and even choosing between types of inverters takes thought and site examination. But even if not "perfect" no one should be discouraged from doing it. It's how you learn and good for body and soul. Probably could make a new thread " What's in your backyard?" for power systems. Probably get some neat ideas...
    Really like the Lithium batteries but don't have the clams to buy them at the moment. My old 900 ah clear case telephone exchange batteries are still going strong. Yep every system is unique...
     
  6. BenP

    BenP Monkey++

    You can reuse your 24v batteries, charge controllers, and panels on a 48v system. I am using 12v panels wired in series to make 24v. Basically you would just need a new inverter. If you buy a good brand you could resell it.
     
  7. sourdough145

    sourdough145 Holder of the M1 thumb award...

    Water is a great power source of power!
    Depending on head and volume design can be daunting for the novice but rewarding.
    I like the permanent magnet DC alternator setup tied to MPPT charge controller and a good sine wave inverter.
    No need to worry about synchronizing to 60 cycles that way.

    Not sure what you mean .... I am a west coast native originally out of the Monterey Bay then Silicone Valley now having escaped to SW Oregon....

    But yes anything using electricity for heat needs be rethought!
    That includes incandescent light bulbs! LED lights are so much better and worth the cost, which is minimal these days.

    I'm with you, I hate to waste money!
    It's amazing what you can do with little money...
    Do be careful when it comes to import components!
    Inexpensive but much of it is garbage!
    Sometimes you need to spend some to get value...
    Trace, Midnight, SunnyBoy, Ouback etc are worth the price.
    Firmware trouble with my SunnyBoy was taken care of handily and been humming for past 5 years.
    Wholesale Solar was easy to work with on the west coast and I have used them since their beginning... If nothing else a good source to look at systems.

    I have never regretted having a separate 12VDC system for my radios and LED lighting.

    My next system (since I will be grid tie) will still be 48VDC but with smaller capacity battery and solar array. It will be for backup power and power bill reduction not for full time off grid type operation.
    Every situation will have different requirements to fill.
    Will still have a separate 12vdc system for lighting and radios though...
    I don't think you can go wrong having built a 12vdc system.

    I have been posting too much so back into the woodwork I go...
    Welcome to the tree Hillbilly549, enjoy the swing....
     
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  8. Merkun

    Merkun furious dreamer

    @Hillbilly549
    In case you are wondering why the concentration on solar systems, it's because the sun is everywhere. Well, mostly, anyway. Wind and water, not so much. IMHO, forget wind now and forever. After you get situated and can study how that stream behaves, then look at hydro for a supplement. In other words, stick with one thing until it is under control. Thus spake me, and maybe me only.
     
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  9. Hillbilly549

    Hillbilly549 Monkey

    I wr
    Not wondering at all as I've been steering it that way a bit and that's definitely my #1 option for off grid power.

    I'm not even sure how much flow I have in the stream until I get back there in a few weeks, but it's definitely a small mountain stream. It's in the bottom of the hollow but it emerges from underground about 30 yrds below where the cabin will be. In order to keep the power generation anywhere near the house, it'll have to be a low head wheel of some design. I could build a flume and possibly get 10' of head within 200 ft of the cabin.....still not sure what that does for me considering losses from there back to the batteries.
     
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  10. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    200 ft is “Next Door” in the terms of Wire Length... if the System is designed properly.... Generating the power in variable Frequency AC, (Alternator with Diodes removed) allows the use of Transformers to boost the Voltage up to 480Vac, and then back down to a reasonable voltage on the receiving end, then rectifying the AC to DC, and then feeding a MPPT Charge Controller to charge a Battery Bank, that then feeds a Sine Wave Inverter... Because microHrdro is 24/7/365 it doesn’t take big power to keep the System Battery Bank at full Float... Just one Design possibility, you might consider...
     
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Sounds like you may have an artesian well that might prove far more useful. If you can get some hydrological data from the state or maybe even the county, you might find no need for a well pump. Well worth the effort if possible, you might be able to tap the aquifer above the cabin and have no need for a pump at all.
     
  12. Hillbilly549

    Hillbilly549 Monkey

    That's a fantastic idea, maybe you or someone else could start that thread since this newby has started 3 of the last 4 topics in this sub forum. :whistle:
     
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  13. sourdough145

    sourdough145 Holder of the M1 thumb award...

    Water systems are always interesting....
    Sounds like you are talking a low head system under 100cfm.
    While 200 ft of run is a ways (400 ft of wire for calculation) while that's a distance if the current isn't high your losses won't be too bad. Running transformers make sense if the power if fairly high and you don't mind buying 6 transformers and understand 3 phase operation... Small system might be better if battery bank and inverter were local to generation. Wild DC from an alternator (higher voltage best) within the limits of charge controller with matching battery bank is simple and reliable. Simple to place a 220ac volt inverter at battery (short run large wire, low losses)... Take the 220ac and run up to the house and use one transformer to get your 110ac, less complication and cost while maintaining an easy to understand single phase setup. I squared R losses at 1100 watts if using #10AWG wire are (.4 ohm @ 5amp = 2volt drop.... 2 volts at 5amp = 10 watts loss in heat) minimal. 40 watts loss if generated at 110vac and watts lost at 440vac is 2.5watts... Cost vs benefit is a matter of personal choice. (Calculations were using 1 ohm per 1000ft as stated in NEC wire tables) NEC code looks at anything over 3% loss end to end as excessive, a good rule of thumb...
    Again I'm generalizing based on what I've read of your situation... Lots of info is required to properly size a system without under or over sizing. Personal preference and your circumstances will dictate what system you will build. Best thing you can do is educate yourself (lots of good info on the Internet) and make an informed decision. Yes you might not get it perfect first try but you will have learned a tremendous amount on how to do it right. Best wishes on your endevors!
     
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  14. Hillbilly549

    Hillbilly549 Monkey

    This is a fact. I have 4 steady water flows on the property in the winter, but only the one that flows year round.
     
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  15. Hillbilly549

    Hillbilly549 Monkey

    [​IMG]

    That's pretty cool. This is more in our wheelhouse.
     
  16. sourdough145

    sourdough145 Holder of the M1 thumb award...

    Nice look! Just be sure to put an air tight wood burner in the fireplace. Free standing is best as you can cook on it plus additional heat recovery (hot water too...). Heated with wood for nearly 30 yrs and love it. Great on the coast to help dehumidify the house. We use two of the thermoelectric fans on top our Morsö stove giving plenty of circulation. We have put LED adhesive strip lights (12vdc) under the kitchen cabinets for great cooking lighting. Sometimes it's the little touches that make life sweeter. Log cabin kit homes are pretty cool. Be sure you sit down with plans a while to figure out your plumbing, electrical, grey water, septic and other layouts, Real easy to put in extra before walls go up, real tough to do afterwards.... (Esp lighting)
    Been there, didn't do it, hated it. Plan, discuss, write it down. Then walk away for a day and do it again.
    Surprising what you'll add, change and remove from what you first wrote. (Like my dad taught, measure twice, cut once)
    If I weren't such an old fart I'd love to tackle something like that again.... Such is life. Good Luck!
     
  17. Hillbilly549

    Hillbilly549 Monkey

    Thanks for the advice, I've built or managed the building of nearly 1000 homes but none were log, so wiring with log walls is definitely a question mark for me. I'll do the research to figure that out though.

    My wife can't wait for a wood stove. She wants one with a cooktop, so I'm searching for something high quality and efficient but with that early 20th century look. I on the other hand really want to do a rocket mass heater....shes hates the look. Will likely build one in the basement and then have the traditional stove on the main floor.
     
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  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    So, Do both.... use a Cook Stove that heats fast, and cooks even, for cooking, and a Rocket Stove for heating and Domstic Hot Water... You burn a lot of small wood, in the Cook Stove, and when the food is cooked, you let it go out... You burn the big Wood in the Rocket Stove, designed to heat the structure, and if so appropriately designed, Domestic Hot Water... This Stove is so designed to burn all day and provide Heat to the structure even during the night... These are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE goals... It just takes Planning, and understanding of what is needed to be accomplished, by each device...
     
  19. Hillbilly549

    Hillbilly549 Monkey

    Let's try this again, if anyone is still willing to give me some ideas on a system size and component recommendations for our 16x16 off grid cabin w/loft. Thus is where we will live for likely the next two years while I work and build our full size cabin.

    This is a list of exactly what we think we will use as far as electrical loads and how long they will be on each day:

    *TV 50 watts 3 hrs
    *DVD player 5 watts 3 hrs
    *Laptop 30 watts 2 hrs
    *Phone charger 4 watts 2 hrs
    *High efficiency fridge/freezer 50 watts 24 hrs (website claims only 590 watt hours)
    *Tabletop Mixer (Wife HAS to have it) 100 watts 10 minutes
    * (4) 60w equivalent LED 8 watts each...4 hrs


    That's it. I plugged all this into Wholesale solar calculator for my area and it spit out .36 Kwh system....300 watts of panels....etc. They dont even have a system that small. Their closest system is almost $4k without batteries....nope. All other appliances will run on gas/propane. That fridge might even change to propane, but they're double the price. Maybe it's worth that to cut down on power needs?

    Thanks everybody.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
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  20. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    OK, do we assume that is per day? You'll need to allow for the inevitable dreary sunless days. 0.36 kwh based on what use rate and insolation?
    I do not have a warm toasty feeling that all the bases are covered.'

    I have zero interest in discouraging you from an experiment, I just want be sure you know it's an experiment.
     
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