New: H3N2 virus.....

Discussion in 'Survival Medicine' started by dragonfly, Nov 24, 2011.

  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

  2. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    Scary!! I have a question for any of you guy's do you feel the vac's work even the ones they require you to give your children? I seen last year where a couple of the vac's didn't help and in some cases could be dangerous. I know we are going through some of these with our daughter and there are some we could refuse and others are manditory. Along with the flu vac's and where I deal alot with the public I just don't know. Then when SHTF and these shot wont be around, will it make those who have been taking them more open to catching the virus?
  3. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    OK. Fact is SHTF is fast approaching. It is just a matter of how big, how bad, and why. Other than that, this kind of stuff makes me want to be a damn HERMIT.
    Alpha: the lack of flu vaccines post SHTF will not be as big a deal as you think. The lower population levels, and limited contact with folks outside of your group/family will limit if not eliminate your contact with these virii. If your group follows strict quarantine protocols for visitors, then you should be golden.
  4. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    The lesser amount of contact is what I am basing my whole idea on...getting out and staying out, of harm's way....Vaccines, well it's a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" scenario...If you have your own Dr., do what you need to do, and quickly....
    Falcon15 likes this.
  5. Gunny Highway

    Gunny Highway Hard Work and Sacrifice blessed by God's Grace

    I work in healthcare and they are now REQUIRING us to get flu vaccine. Or at least a piece of paper that says we got it.......

    I don't believe the flu vaccine works but I get all the other HEP B etc - they have a proven track record. That bastard in the UK that falsified his data about vaccines causing autism has caused a revival of previously controlled diseases. He should get kneecapped and dumped into the North Sea...
  6. Gunny Highway

    Gunny Highway Hard Work and Sacrifice blessed by God's Grace

    Oh and about requiring you to get vaccines....isn't my body mine to do with what I want...I mean its a womens right to choose if she gets an abortion right ( not that I believe in it ) but seriously....where does the Supreme Court stand on this ? It is only in certain counties here in California.

    By that reasoning than EVERYONE in the county should be getting it ( forced ) - not just healthcare workers right ?
    alaskachick likes this.
  7. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Well not quite... You choose to be a Healthcare Worker, therefor it is a Requirement of your Employment. they do not let Blind folks be Bus Drivers, or Deaf folks be Recordists. Those are requirements for the JOB. Momma is an RN, and when she deploys with Her "Drs w/o Boarders" Team, she has to have ALL he shots and immunizations, up to Date, or many of the places they go will NOT ALLOW they to enter the country, or even Pass Thru. Just part of traveling on a world-wide basis. You either comply, or you don't go, or work as the case may be. ..... Cost of doing business.....
  8. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    My sister is a pathology lab tech specializing in microbes - I call her a 'microbug wrangler'..... She is required to get the vaccine(s) each year. She's also on the 'immediate response team' in case of local health emergencies, so if a really bad one hits, she's likely toast. Job requirements.

    Me being a lowly Computer Programmer, I exercise my choice to avoid the vaccine like.... well, the plague. [stirpot]
    VisuTrac and Falcon15 like this.
  9. Gunny Highway

    Gunny Highway Hard Work and Sacrifice blessed by God's Grace

    alaskachick likes this.
  10. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Caught a horrible bug last year and it actually hurt. Put me and the whole crew down for a week, next week just a few hours and we were exhausted, then the third week limited work. Worst ever but still will not be taking a flu shot. Had to get shots every year when in the Marines and they made me sick for about three weeks. Swore off them when I got out. Have had a Tetanus booster and a couple of shots so I could go on mission trips but no others. Will take my chances at healthy living warding off the rest--or suffering through the mess.
    Sapper John and Falcon15 like this.
  11. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Never had any but tetanus shots ( stepped on nails) after the service...But I may have regretted it a time or two...can't say if it was any better one way or the other BUT, when I did get a nasty bug it put me down for a week!
    Talk about a severe migraine! I Almost fell face first into a massive manual lathe (cadillac) at work, boss had his wife take me home, wouldn't let me drive! Suffered like a big dog!
    Falcon15 likes this.
  12. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    It just worries me and Im not trying to be over paranoid but you have no idea what they are doing to you or your family. Like the Dr. that had US backing that was working on the steril dug and testing it across sea's. Which that could have just been a rumor
  13. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Likelyhood of these types of animal and human viruses combining like this? anyone?
  14. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    I've talked to several Doctor's who feel it could be possible, they say the way these strains are mutating it's impossible to rule it out.
  15. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Very high. Natural virii mutate through antigenic drift. Antigenic drift refers to the random, spontaneous mutations in viruses’ RNA that happen over time. These mutations are small, usually the alteration of one nucleotide at a time. Viruses will gradually accumulate more and more mutations in their RNA, eventually causing them to become new strains.

    They can also go through "antigenic shift". Antigenic shift is a very large and sudden mutation (changing of many nucleotides/many genes), that happens all at once. Antigenic shift happens when two different types of virus infect the same cell. The viruses’ RNA get mixed up, forming new viruses that have major changes in their genome.

    Antigenic Shift and drift are normal, natural things that occur to virii. In the case of influenza viruses, a shift is more common than drift, because they are so infectious, however drift makes them cross species infectious. Then you have the human factor...
    Viruses and how they work...
    Flu Attack! How A Virus Invades Your Body - YouTube
    The mechanism of spread...
    How Flu Viruses Attack National Geographic - YouTube

    It's enough to make you want to be a hermit.
    Gafarmboy, Sapper John and Alpha Dog like this.
  16. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    Ya know Hantavirus... a form of Hemorrhagic fever is on the increase too...
    now reported in 32 states... slowly creeping it's way eastward...

    People get it from mouse and rat dropping... just sweeping them up causes the virus to become airborne... next thing you know your bleeding out of every orifice... nasty stuff that Hantavirus
  17. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    Don't get the vaccines! It killed more people than the virus it was trying to prevent. There is not only death, there's some serious long term health consequences.

    When they try to give you one, tell them you are allergic to mercury.
    Seawolf1090 likes this.
  18. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    I know rat droppings are ICKY, didn't know what exactly the caused, cleaned out one of our outbuildings earlier this year, and LOT of rat poop in there. Could only do a little bit at a time, it was so bad.

    I don't get out much, which helps from not getting sick, main issue is when I visit a friend, since her kid goes to school and gets all sorts of nasty germs there, that's how I got whooping cough a few years back. *shudder* I don't EVER want to go through that again.

    And my understanding of vaccines is that the main flaw(besides that quite often they DON'T WORK) is that while you might not get sick, you can still be a carrier(and I think it's possible for the disease/virus to mutate while being a carrier?).
  19. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I thought Antigenic Shift only occurred in "like" strains or where the "likeness" of a completely different viruses (virii is not the plural of virus btw. in latin virus meant "venom") was close enough to allow shift. While I agree that it's not impossible, I just view the probability of a complete shift, or in this case, recombination, into a complete new virus to be in the "highly unlikely" scale due to the frequency at which such things have been reported. But then again.. I suppose we're due for another HIV like disease.. after all.. there are drugs now that suppress HIV long enough to allow you to live... /end tin foil
  20. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    You can be a carrier, and be unaffected by a virus. It can mutate (rapidly) through antigenic shift if you get hit with another infectious virus of the same type at the same time. Some mutations are bad. Some are good. A virus can mutate into a non-human infectious form during an antigenic shift, if the right RNA is swapped in a shift. It is, however, a good idea to have quarantine protocols at your house before and after SHTF to reduce or eliminate spread. We have purchased good quality surgical masks and gloves to further reduce our exposure. Nothing is 100%, except a fully hermetically sealed suit or complete isolation of the infected person in a hermetically sealed room with negative air pressure and multiple filtration methods, but every little bit helps. Even isolating the person in a "sick room" and only allowing one person to go in to deliver meals, check the sick individual, administer medications, etc. as long as the caretaker wears a mask and gloves, an outer coat (an old housecoat would work), and the caretaker washes their hands thoroughly when they leave the room.

    In a SHTF scenario, barring a fancy setup (masks, gloves, and outer garment) just covering the face with a bandana and a good hand washing before and after handling a sick person's items will help reduce the spread of infection greatly.

    Once the illness has passed the infectious stage (fever breaking is a good sign - fever is the body's way of killing an infection) wash the bed linens and ill person's clothing separate from the rest of the laundry in boiling hot water with plenty of soap (tie a bandana over your face and wash your hands before and after handling the items - once the items are in the boiling hot water, drop your bandana in and wash your hands thoroughly). Hang dry in the sun if possible and let natural solar UV radiation sterilize the items further. Wipe the hard surfaces in the ill person's room down with a sanitizer of some kind, to kill any lingering infectious agent. We have prepped several bottles of Lysol concentrate (the brown stuff that reeks) as it is exceptionally effective for "germ" killing. Isoporphyl alcohol will work for this, as will several other commercial cleaners like OdoBan. It may seem like a lot of work but it kills the germs. You want to make sure you have reduced the chances of the spread of illness.

    Hand sanitizers, while effective, may not be readily available. Liquid alcohol (commercial Isoprophyl alcohol or even a high proof vodka) will work as a fast sanitizer in a pinch.

    I only list these suggestions because once we enter a SHTF or WROL scenario, professional medical care will very likely be unavailable. It is always better to treat something even as "minor" as a cold as one of the worst plagues than to have everyone down with an illness.

    This is what we (my group and I) have as protocols. YMMV.
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