Energy New OffGrid TN

Discussion in 'Off Grid Living' started by SurvivalJester, Apr 15, 2019.


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  1. Ok bare with me. I'm accounting for 3,500 kWh a month as a minimum, early on. I've got a roughly estimated total of 5,900 watts running and a total 13,500 watts starting. I hope I'm getting this right, fell free to laugh, heh. Just to give a better grasp, I've got a starting budget of about $35,000 with about $3,600 coming in a month. Im going to start with raw land. Have septic put in. Im going to use repurposed materials w/ raw materials but build to code. I'm going to be doing all the labor for anything that doesn't require a licensed contractor. It'll be a staged process. The solar and electricity are definitely my weakest link. Preciate the patience.

    Edit: I realize my kWh may be way off as I'm calculating the well pump always being on and not really knowing the particulars on if it's only on while pumping? Sorry.. 2,300 kWh might be more accurate..

    I'm interested. Do you have a link to a listing?

    You're probably correct. I'm struggling with fully understanding the load I need based off the kWh calculations. Giving myself a crash course, thanks to you guys.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2019
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  2. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    Average US household uses around 900kwhrs/month. Average on the TVA system is around 2300/month, because they produced cheap power, and have promoted 'all electric home' over the years.

    Last month, ours was 771, and my solar produced 508 of that.....and I have an 11kw system. We heat with wood, water heating is mainly propane (do have a 30gal electric in meat kitchen, but only on when we process something) stove top is propane, most lighting is LED. Do run a wood working shop on that (on occasion), plus the rest of the farm......green house fan, heat lamp for new chicks, that kind of thing...AND we currently have 4 of our 8 freezers going....the other 4 have been eaten out over the fall/winter, awaiting refill this growing/butchering year.

    If you're truly using 3500kwhrs/month, (pull out your power bill and look) you're in for a serious cut in power use....or one heck of a lot bigger solar power system !

    Good place for you to spend some time is: Solar Panels, Solar Power Systems, Off-Grid & DIY Solar | altE
    They sell stuff at a decent price (I'm a long time customer, no other affiliation) and their Resource section will give you a good intro to solar with a ton of videos, articles, etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2019
  3. Preciate the info. That actually helped a lot. I'm going back to the drawing board, it's obvious my numbers are off and I'm over complicating somewhere. i literally am looking to run a energy efficient fridge 24/7, a energy efficient washer 2 hours a week, the daily charge of a couple of cell phones, recharging of AA/AAA and 20v batteries sometimes daily, well pump on daily use, the use of power tools (skil saw, chop saw, table saw) at random sometimes daily, charge laptop every few days, and that's it and my math is obviously lacking... *Snort...
     
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  4. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    3500kwh a month is high enough to run a small shop with full time air compressor and never turn off the lighting. I suspect that you have summed up the nameplate wattages and tried to correct for a months use, which is guaranteed to give you bad number, and the 5900 running watts and 13500 watts of starting are mysterious numbers. It would be instructive to know what your utility bill says you used last month and the last year or so average monthly use.

    To be honest, these numbers you mention sound more like you pulled them out of thin air rather than sitting down and thinking thru the process. Do this to reduce the (always) possibility that we are not communicating on the same basis. -
    -Make lists of all the power using devices that the household will have in it. For this part of the process, do NOT take diversity of use into account. If you have both AC and DC loads in mind, make two lists. For these lists, use running wattage, not starting wattage. Keep pure resistive loads (lights and toasters) separate from loads with motors (fridge, freezer, furnace.)
    -When those lists are done, come back here and tell us what the totals are. MAKE SURE you differentiate between watts and kilowatts. We do not need to know anything about the specific appliances for this step; that will come later.

    As Andy says, a bit of reading is worth the time, so do that too. Bear in mind that once you have a handle on all the parts and pieces, you still need a design, and that will come from knowing the loads, first. Simply saying you'll use "energy efficient" appliances is completely meaningless. The only thing that matters for design is hard numbers off nameplates.

    Taking your starting budget into account, is that for the electric plant or the entire homestead build?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  5. Thanks man, I'm on it!..
     
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  6. I'll get on a more detailed list. $35,000 is the beginning overall budget. More is going into as I can save. I'm going very minimalist, I don't need lights and freezers, air conditioners, etc. I was using average numbers on appliances just to get a generalized estimate on my needs but my numbers might as well be from thin air seeing as they're wrong, lol. But that's why I came here and now I know I need to reassess. I'll get more accurate information and return, thanks again!
     
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  7. Heh. Guys, sorry my math sucks. I was mixing numbers in my equation, smh. 228 kWh is my accurate high end goal....
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    OK, so the 35K is the whole ball of wax, not just the electric plant. And the 3500 per month is projected cash flow income, and not dedicated to the utility plant. We do not need that number for now, but for sure you do, and will need it to project the rate that you can put money into the whole build.

    OK, so your goal is 228KWH per month. Are there rational numbers behind that SWAG? Can we assume your "average numbers on appliances" were taken from reliable sources? (Betcha not.) For example, how are you selecting your reefer? Capacity or power usage? When you are shooting for small groups, you do NOT use a shotgun, you get into the load building, you get into the details.

    We are not trying to wound your pride by picking on the lack of detail. We are trying to point you in the right direction to get a good design and approach under way. Blue sky dreaming is fine, but sooner or later, well, the boots have to walk.
     
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  9. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    Go to Energystar.gov for appliance ratings.
    Fridge: Product Finder — Refrigerators
    You'll find you can get a decent size fridge (18cuft or more) in the 600-700kwhr/yr range fairly easy. We remodeled the kitchen about 9 years back, replaced the mid 90's model 22cuft side-by-side that used 1200kwhrs/year with a 25cuft bottom freezer, double top door model that uses 680kwhrs/yr. That is a bit less than 2kwhrs/day, or 55/month.

    For anything that uses heat, consider propane or some other form of heat....as I said, we use wood for space heating. Resistance heating of any kind is a huge power hog.

    For water, you can put in Grundfos SQ series pumps and run it on either solar panels directly, or 240vAC. IF you can select a property with enough elevation above house level, you can put in a storage tank and gravity feed, letting solar run the pump to fill the tank, not to pressurize the house. You'd need 50-60' of elevation above the house for acceptable pressure.....OR you can put in a small pressure pump to fill from the storage with no elevation with less power use than a typical well pump. Storage is nice in case of well/pump/power problems.....we have 3,000gal.

    This Franklin pump is what we use, even though I can gravity feed (but only around 20psi....which did us for 20 years) to boost our pressure. Been in about 5 years now, no issues. Available 115 or 220vAC

    Little Giant Inline 400 1/3 HP 115-Volt Booster Pump-92061503 - The Home Depot
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Build to choose. Matter of fact build better than code. My place when Ibuilt it was a concrete slab with the rough plumbing (drains and vents) installed as I was working overseas at the time. Concrete was commercial quality (more fiber), lots of rebar and grid tie, plus j-bolts. I had a pro do that and the grading and it sat for 2 years as I worked overseas. The walls are 2x4 with R13 insulation (now they have R15 fiberglass insulation available) and 3/4" plywood sheathing and roof sheathing. The attic has 60 inches of fiberglass insulation (total) and I'm going to install two solar attic fans to make it more bearable. Windows and doors are energy efficent double paned glass. Doors are metal insulated with the 9 light windows (I know, I know, security sucks, but I needed more natural light inside it was a cave). ALL walls (including interior walls) are insulated, the door to my bedroom is a steel exterior door with dead bolt (security guys are you happy now?) and I installed gas lights in the house as well as propane heaters. There is also a woodstove, gas stove and on demand gas waterheater. All lights are LED, wiring is 12ga romex for on grid, a deep well (500ft) and numerous springs provide water. A septic tank was already on site so a new leach field was installed. The roofing is 50yr steel. I don't use an AC, but the concrete floor does pull up some cool temps during the summer. Conversely, it also pulls up cool temps in the winter, lol.
    In my AO, the only permit you needed was a septic permit. You didn't have to put in a system, but you DID have to have the permit before you could get an electrical injection (rough and finished) or a temporary power pole. Also, be aware that if you put in an electric heating system, you will need an electrical permit for that. But finished inspections/occupation inspections or permits weren't required. I did wire my house in 2012 too current electrical code (County only required 2006 code). The Electrical inspector actually remembered me later and was cool, esp after he found out I had never wired a house before and had a couple of friends show me what to do and help. So, just be patient, get informed, and talk to your gov (ugh) offices and power companies to make sure all of your i's are dotted and t's are crossed. Good luck with your project.
     
  11. BTW, before I forget, my utility bill at the cabin is usually around $30 or less a month, my mom's bill (power only) running an AC in the summer for the little house I built her is around $65 average. That is with grid tie only, all LED lights, on demand gas water heater, gas heat in the winter, electric dryer and stove and on a well. Plus a 50" LED TV with a jailbroken firestick and internet. Her total monthly bills are under $350 before her share of the mortgage ($500). I can't cut her expenses much more.
     
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