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New Preamble to the Constitution

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by tacmotusn, Oct 29, 2009.

  1. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor


    This is probably the best e-mail I've seen in a long, long time. The following has been incorrectly attributed to State Representative Mitchell Kaye from GA. Actually it was written by Lewis Napper, a Libertarian Party 2000 Senatorial candidade from Mississippi.

    "We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our great-great-great-grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and other liberal bed-wetters. We hold these truths to be self evident: that a whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim they require a Bill of NON-Rights."

    ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV, or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.

    ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc.; but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.

    ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.

    ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes.

    ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in public health care.

    ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.

    ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat, or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV or a life of leisure.

    ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want you to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful. (AMEN!)

    ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness... Being an American means that you have the right to PURSUE happiness, which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an over abundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights.

    ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from!


    ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country's history or heritage. This country was founded on the belief in one true God. And yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN GOD WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are uncomfortable with it, TOUGH!
  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Awesome. Almost perfect.

    No it wasn't.
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Picky, picky, picky. [beat] The point is made, whether sufficiently detailed or accurate is immaterial. Mr. Kaye (if he really did author it) is on the right track. [winkthumb]
  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yes, well. I will quiet my "opinions" when the religious nutjobs do the same for a change. They have a lot to make up for, with their holy wars and all.

    /me whistles a tune of joy.
  5. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Some things in life are bad
    They can really make you mad
    Other things just make you swear and curse.
    When you're chewing on life's gristle
    Don't grumble, give a whistle.....
    And this'll help things turn out for the best...
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And...always look on the bright side of life...
    Always look on the light side of life...
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If life seems jolly rotten
    There's something you've forgotten
    And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
    When you're feeling in the dumps
    Don't be silly chumps
    Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing.
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And...always look on the bright side of life...
    Always look on the light side of life..."

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]:)
  6. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Ah my athiest friend. While I admire the strength and honesty of your convictions I cannot let this pass without rebuttal.

    And this is in no way directed at you specifically or personally. I simply quote your post as an avenue to rebut the argument that I have seen offered many times on this site and others.

    Despite the best of atheistic attempts to re-write history and distort the words of our founding fathers the truth is that, yes Virginia, our nation was founded as a Christian nation, based upon and governed by Christian principles by Godly Christian men.

    The recent revisionist attempts to portray our founding fathers as vague deists or atheists who despised the Christian religion and had no intent to incorporate it into the nation that they were building is quite creative but is simply wrong. The quotes that are proffered as proof of their aversion to Christian principles are based, as is often the case when non-Christians attempt to explain Christian matters, on an ignorance of the distinctions of what they lump together as Christianity and a flawed understanding of the sentiments and the historical context of the words that they are quoting.

    These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to an official church when the Declaration of Independence was signed.

    They were rebelling against the corruption and tyranny of the Catholic or state church as much as they were the tyranny of the state. The perversion of the pure Christian precepts and the propaganda of the clergy in support of varied tyrants was a sore spot among them and they had no love for the state sanctioned Church.

    The abominations and perversions of the inquisition were recent history to these educated men and the manipulation and forced servitude of the people under the guise of religion was an undeniable historical fact to these students of history.

    The quotes used to prove that our founding fathers were not Christians and did not found this nation upon Christian principles fall into 3 categories.

    The first is a number of these quotes that are of dubious origin and do not pass the litmus test for historical accuracy.

    The second are those that are verifiable quotes but are taken completely out of context and fail to convey the sentiments ascribed to them when placed into the entire context of the source that they are taken from.

    The vast majority are accurate quotes but the words and meanings are totally obscured by the bias and ignorance of those quoting them and those hearing them. Ascribing to them sentiments that are not at all the intent of the person who wrote or spoke them.

    We have these incontrovertible words of our founders unequivocally stating their belief in God and Christ and founding this nation upon the principles and values of their Christian faith.

    Patrick Henry:
    “It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
    “ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

    John Adams and John Hancock:
    We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

    John Adams:
    “ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity

    Thomas Jefferson:
    “ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
    “Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”
    "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

    But the revisionists would put forth quotes such as these that seemingly contradict those above.

    Thomas Jefferson:
    The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

    John Adams:
    Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole cartloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?

    James Madison:
    What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

    Thomas Paine:
    I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).

    The folly comes from the ignorance, as in lack of knowledge, of those proposing this ridiculous revisionist argument.

    They are ignorant of the theological currents of the time. The theological controversies and debates that were raging at the time and therefore at the forefront of our founders consciousness.

    They were coming from a time when the often tyrannical rulers of Europe ruled under and with the support and blessing of the Church. The clergy used their influence to control and manipulate the masses on behalf of the monarchy. And it was rewarded for its faithfulness.

    The quotes of our founders that rail against the church or the clergy are aimed at the organization of religion. The abuse of pure Christianity by corrupt clergy. What many today call Churchianity or Religiosity.

    And the quotes about the Bible? They seemingly imply that our founders had little regard and even outright animosity towards Holy Writ. Not at all. Those who are educated in the theological issues of the day know that the “Bible” that they are referring to is not the scriptures but what they perceived as a perversion of Holy Writ, the King James Bible.

    King James commissioned the Church of England to translate an English version of scripture. But he had ulterior motives. He wanted to divorce his wife for one and he also had a disquieted and restless subjects that he needed to quell. The church of the time and their clergy obliged and transliterated the scriptures into what we now know as the King James version of the Bible.

    A transliteration is an interpretation of the words written not a word for word translation. It is very subjective and lends itself to being corrupted by those doing the transliteration.

    The KJV Bible contains many errors and changes from the one used by our founders, generally the Geneva Bible. And they also were educated men who could read scripture in the original Greek. The KJV in its subtle changes of inference manipulated scripture to imply that divorce was acceptable under certain circumstances and also that according to scripture men were to yield to the authority placed over them. They were to be humble and obedient servents and not challenge the authority of their rulers.

    You can see why this transliteration appealed to King James and why it was so repulsive to our founding fathers.

    So these quotes used to “prove” that our founders were not devout Christians and that they did not found our nation upon Christian tenets, values and institutions are simply not true. They were devout men who followed a true religion and railed against abuses to the true faith and the true and faithful word of God. Their faith ruled everything in their life and every action and course contemplated in the founding of this nation.

    But, like the saying goes “ Actions speak louder than words” so let’s examine some of their actions.

    They gave us these;
    Public Institutions

    Liberty Bell Inscription:
    “ Proclaim liberty throughout the land and to all the inhabitants thereof” [Leviticus 25:10]

    Proposals for the seal of the United States of America

    • “Moses lifting his wand and dividing the Red Sea” –Ben Franklin

    • “The children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.” --Thomas Jefferson

    On July 4, 1776, Congress appointed Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams "to bring in a device for a seal for the United States of America." Franklin's proposal adapted the biblical story of the parting of the Red Sea. Jefferson first recommended the "Children of Israel in the Wilderness, led by a Cloud by Day, and a Pillar of Fire by night. . . ." He then embraced Franklin's proposal and rewrote it

    Jefferson's revision of Franklin's proposal was presented by the committee to Congress on August 20, 1776.

    Another popular proposal to the Great Seal of the United States was:

    " Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God"; with Pharoah's army drowning in the Red Sea

    The three branches of the U.S. Government: Judicial, Legislative, Executive

    • At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;

    “For the LORD is our judge,
    the LORD is our lawgiver,
    the LORD is our king;

    He will save us.”

    Our three branches of government come directly from the Old Testament. Our laws are taken from the Ten Commandments.

    In 1892 the United States Supreme Court emphatically declared that America was "a Christian nation." If you read the Court's opinion, you will gain a nearly-complete education in the Christian history of America. You will agree that America was once a Christian Theocracy, and if you hear the heart of Justice David Brewer (who wrote the opinion for a unanimous Supreme Court), you'll know that if he and America's Founding Fathers could see America in 2009, they would begin immediately working to make America a Theocracy again. Here's where to get started:

    Step by step, the Court shows why America was founded as a Christian nation -- officially, legally, constitutionally. Let the highest court in the land be your guide. Follow the Court's history and review the documents cited by the Court.

    Anyone who actually studies the true history of our nation and understands the theological climate of the time knows that these recent attempts to disavow our Christian heritage are laughable.

    Any educated and knowledgeable person can easily see through these absurd proffering of “proofs” that our founding fathers were anything other than what they were. Devout Godly men who let the tenants of Holy Writ be their sole guide to creating the greatest Christian nation, the Godliest form of governance in the history of the world. It was their great concern that this system would be corrupted and their great admonition was against the perversion of Christianity not the true adherence to it.

    As a Christian nation we have been blessed above all other nations on the face of the earth. But those blessings are conditional upon remaining a true Christian nation. Once we turn our backs on our Christian heritage and are no longer called by the name of God then our blessings and position in this world will cease.

    Blessed is the nation whose God is Yahweh, The people He has chosen as His own inheritance. Psalm 33:12

  7. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    keep this in your pocket after the overthrow
  8. oldsoldier

    oldsoldier Gadget Master

    Cool.... I like it !!!
  9. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    MinuteMan, Thank you so much for your timely and accurate input. I choose to not argue this point with anyone. They will believe what they want, and I will believe what I believe. At this point to me here at this forum arguement about it is meaningless. I believe in God and am not inclined to support any organized religious group for various reasons, but do believe this country WAS Founded on Christian values. To each his own. It is not up to me to judge.
  10. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    This country was founded WITH some crazy PURITAN extremists, who enjoyed BURNING women at the stake -they are no better than extremist Muslims in this regard. This country was founded WITH the help of Christians and other religious people -but they are not me, and I am not them. And no matter HOW MANY TIMES you religious folk say it -it won't change the fact that ATHEISM DID EXIST, DOES EXIST, ALWAYS WILL -and YES, some of your beloved founders really were NOT RELIGIOUS. *gasp!*

    You know what? I don't care if you are religious. Just don't go around re-writing history to make yourselves feel better, okay? We have enough problems already thanks to religion. And try reading some Thomas Paine to work off that edge of insanity, will ya? ;)

    All said and done -I still love you guys. But religion is a real killer.
  11. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Believe it or not my friend I actually agree with everything you just said.

    Many of our founding fathers were not religious and niether am I.
    I am a born again Christian and an ordained minister but I am NOT religious.

    Religion is a man made institution filled with flawed human doctrines and dogmas that have been a curse on men of true faith for centuries.

    Much of the evil perpetuated in the history of the world has been done in the name of religion and condoned by the "commandments of men".

    'This people honors Me with their lips,
    But their heart is far from Me.
    7 And in vain they worship Me,
    Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' 8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men[
    Mark 7:6-8 (NKJV)

    BTW, love ya too man!! [beer]
  12. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Sorry Broker, but talk about out there in la la land. First off Plymouth Rock and the Pilgrims / Puritans circa 1620 was (English). North America was being explored and populated by English, French, and Spanish. According to any reputable info I can find there was no Burning of any accused Witches in North America (note that I didn't say USA, as that didn't even become a concept for the founding of a new country until the 1770's). There were accused Witches burned, hung, and even drawn and quartered in Jolly olde England until just prior to 1700.
    Yes, Atheism as well as agnostics did exist among the Colonists, and even among our Founders of USA. The founders wanted religious freedom for all, but for the Majority were firmly rooted with Christian beliefs. Minuteman was very informative and gave many references. Some people will be too blind to see anything that does not 100 percent agree with their own beliefs. Unfortunately you seem to be in that camp. Nobody here denys that atheism exists now or then. I have also read that some very few of our founders were not considered at that time to be Christians. Minuteman also addressed that. No post 1770 USA americans burned any witches. I also believe that the various organized religions of the world are little more than moral guide posts for living in their little or large area of influence. I also believe that more peoples of the world have died for religious disputes in belief than for any other reason. Hell, organized Christian religions can't even agree within themselves about who is going to hell, and who isn't.
    And, God and I love you too. May he who watches over us all bring joy into your heart and show you the light.
  13. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Well crap MM, I just stepped all over your last post. Sorry.
  14. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I'll make a bet that Mitchell Kaye would be astounded if he knew where his tongue in cheek fictional preamble has taken this thread --

  15. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Are you sure with regard to Mitchell Kaye that it is fictional? if so please debunk it with a reference.
  16. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Quoted...Not from me...Just stumbled on it...




    Origins: Mitchell Kaye,

    a Georgia state representative from Marietta, is not the originator of the piece. The famed "Bill of No Rights" was written in 1993 by Lewis Napper, a self-described amateur philosopher and from Mississippi who ran for a U.S. Senate seat in 2000 as a Libertarian.

    Kaye's name likely became associated with it through the innocent act of finding the article in his inbox and liking it enough to forward to friends. People tend to leave official-looking signatures intact when they forward e-mail, and his name's remaining with the piece beyond the initial round of forwardings could easily have created the impression that he was the article's creator.

    Kaye is quick to give credit where credit is due, and his office routinely informs those who ask about the "Bill of No Rights" of its true authorship.

    On 19 July 2000, advice columnist Ann Landers published a truncated version of the piece, attributing it to Kaye. (Left out were the points about free health care and sending troops to fight in foreign wars.) She praised his "tough 'do-it-yourself' position" and declared the language he used to convey his message "delicious."

    The "Bill" resonates with folks because it addresses a number of issues that have often led many of us to shake our heads in disbelief. This Bill of Rights parody strikes straight at the heart of the sense of entitlement so often displayed by those who feel the world owes them a living. "
  17. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    haha, thanks, MM. Although, it is also kind to say what you did -nevertheless, as long as you hold kindness in your heart, it doesn't matter to me what a person worships.

    I am only ever serious when it comes to disinformation and pathetic attempts to alter history. You and I, and many others (except Tac perhaps ;)) will agree that our past is stained forever with the blood of innocents who got in the way of man's religion. Some of the most beautiful people I have ever known were "self" Christians, a term I use to describe a person who doesn't buy into the 700 Club mentality and propaganda. A person can be spiritual, believe whatever they choose -one of the hallmarks of our great nation...but when a person EXPECTS and DEMANDS others to conform, believe as they believe, when it becomes political or assuming that our freedoms and liberties are forged, protected, and carried out due to religion, well that's where the buck STOPS.

    Separation between church and state is extremely important. Our founders (at least the majority of them) knew that religious fervor could EASILY destroy a nation. It's the power of collectivism; the "cult" of un-reason.

    I have said enough. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, Tac. I know how impressionable the religious crowd can be. :p
  18. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    In no way shape or form are my feelings hurt. Nor do you have anything to be sorry about. There is a separation between church and state. and supposedly religious freedom for all. However from my viewpoint it seems that Christianity is the only religion under constant attack from all sides in the USA. Your viewpoint may differ. I neither demand or expect others to conform to my ideals. Each of us has the right to be as weird or nutty as the laws allow. Maybe you should give voting a try, maybe others will have more respect for your opinions then.
  19. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Maybe I should vote? That's your response?

    For whom? CFR candidate #1, or CFR candidate #2?
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Deleted original post. See CRC's investigation.
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