Next challenge to The 2nd

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Tango3, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    it was inevitable with this administration and this court:
    fox is reporting a chicago gun ban challenge will be decided by scotus even in thewakeof "heller" the challenge is the 2nd does not apply to states.(hellerappliedto d.c. aspecial federal "zone"..),2933,557840,00.html

    This is getting ridiculous, citizens do have the right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes ( heller) but municipalities can emplace restrictions?

    but Does it apply:
    on a full moon Tuesday???[peep]
    in a boat ,in a coat, with a goat?[rofllmao][rofllmao]
    her "Latina ness Sotomayor" has already ruled "no" in a similar case..[gun]
  2. gunbunny

    gunbunny Never Trust A Bunny

    Re: next challengeto the2nd

    "Its our turn to make the rules" seems to be the motto of the day. This has an uncanny resemblance to (no relation connotated) African tribal politics. Same corrupt stuff going on, just different parties or tribes doing it.

    Let them go ahead. How many people do you think are fed up with it and not going to pay attention to another new law? Only the ones that will profit by it.
  3. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Re: next challengeto the2nd

    What a crock of crap. So if that is so, then do any of the Amendments to the Constitution apply to the States? How about we all flood the Washington D. C. morons with comments about the 10th amendment in particular. And, tell them that if it ain't covered in the Constitution or the Amendments then to back the hell off.
    No freedom of speech?
    No right to protect yourself and family and friends with firearms?
    No right to unreasonable search and seizure?
    No right not to self incriminate yourself?
    etc etc etc etc?
  4. BigO01

    BigO01 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I personally welcome this , either the court will "incorporate" the Second A and settle the whole problem or if they refuse and insist it only implies to the Feds then why shouldn't we "decent people and gun owners" Blitz the courts with challenges to some of the past crap decisions that apply to other Amendments like the 1st .

    Wouldn't it be nice if we could overturn some of the crap that supposedly falls under the prtection of "Expression" like some of the worst and graphic Porn that inspires child molesters , or crap like Burning the Flag .

    What about the whole Miranda BS if you're so stupid as to not have read the Bill of Rights and know you don't have to talk to the cops then you're probably a illitrate scumbag criminal anyway .

    When they Rule it applies only to the Feds then after all these years lets force them to prove they ever had the precedence from the Founds to make the shit decissions they made a few decades ago that set us on the present collision course with all of the problems we have had .

    After all the even the high courts decisions can be reversed at later dates as Slavery was ruled as being legal at 1 time .
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Normally I would agree, but it is very, very rare when a case of this magnitude gets overturned for the better. I should know, as a former member of the We the People Congress and County Coordinator in Florida for the We the People Foundation, the odds of winning a case against your government is slim to none. -the LARGEST class action lawsuit against the illegal and unconstitutional (privately owned) IRS is still being fought...but with corrupt judges and a biased media -would you even know about it if I hadn't brought it to your attention right now?

    The fact is this; the more we stay on top of these things, the better our chances to stave off the onset of slavery. When their "laws" actually get passed, we are essentially standing on the tracks of an oncoming freight train in an effort to stop change.
  6. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    "It isn't out-of-work high school dropouts firing all that ammo. It isn't guys with maxed-out credit cards
    who drink beer and watch sports all the time. It's educated, serious guys just like you, and Henry, and me.
    We've all got high incomes, or we wouldn't be able to afford to shoot all that ammo. None of us are on the
    dole. A few gun guys drink, but I don't know a single one that goes to football games or even watches
    sports on television. Do you, Henry?"
    "Nobody I know."
    "And if you think back to when you were a kid, I bet almost all your best memories are of when you were
    out shooting, or talking about it when you were done."
    "You're dead-on on that one," Ray admitted.
    "Boy, that's the truth," Henry broke in. "I went out to Reno with my uncle when I was in high school. Best
    time I ever had. Those live pigeon shooters all watched me shoot trap with my .375, and then went with us
    out in the desert to a cannon shoot. Had a hell of a time. They never shot anything but shotguns up until
    that day, and I bet a bunch of them now shoot big rifles.
    "See what I mean?" Fleming said. "We're all the same. And the kicker is, every single one of us believes
    that as honest adult citizens, we have the absolute right to own any and all small arms and shoot them just

    as often as we want. We have a specific culture. Guns and shooting are very important to us, just like living
    as nomads and hunting buffalo was important to the Indians. We are willing to work hard and have the
    government confiscate half our money and use it for things we never get any benefit out of, if only we can
    continue to buy our guns and our ammo and our components, and shoot a lot.
    "Our culture is important, and we're willing to pay for it. We have above-average educations, aboveaverage
    incomes, and almost nonexistent criminal involvement. We pay far more in taxes and receive
    virtually no subsidy payments. You'd think Washington would be happy, but instead they are doing
    everything they can to destroy our culture.
    "In the '20s, soldiers sat on their bunks in the cold at Camp Perry, cleaning the handmade .22 target rifles
    they would compete with the next day. When the President proudly announces that today, seventy years
    later, he is ordering these same guns thrown into a blast furnace, we in the gun culture feel powerful
    emotions. They are the same emotions a Native American would feel if the President proudly ordered the
    destruction of war clubs and other sacred tribal artifacts. They are the same emotions that Jews felt
    watching newsreel footage of Nazi Sturmtroopen gleefully burning intricate copies of the Torah.
    We offer to buy the government's surplus guns, and instead they pay to have them cut up. We offer to buy
    their surplus military ammo, shoot it, sell the brass to a smelter, and give the government the proceeds, and
    instead they pay to have it burned.
    "These government slugs ban our guns and they ban our magazines and they ban our ammo. They ban
    suppressors that make our guns quieter and then they ban our outdoor shooting ranges because our guns are
    too loud. They ban steel-core ammunition because it's 'armor piercing', then they close down our indoor
    ranges where people shoot lead-core bullets because they say we might get lead poisoning.
    "The people in the gun culture have a better safety record than any police department in the nation, but in
    several states actually prohibit us from using guns for self-protection, and in all the other states except one
    they make us buy a license. They tax us so we can have more cops, and when crime still goes up, they tax
    us more and ban more of our guns.
    "People in the gun culture endure waiting periods that no other group would stand for. We undergo
    background checks that no legislator, judge, doctor, or police officer has to tolerate, and we submit to it not
    once, or once a year, but over and over again. Then, after we yield to this outrage, they smile and forbid us
    from buying more than one gun in a 30-day period.
    "If we sell one gun we own that's gone up in value, they can charge us with dealing in firearms without a
    federal dealer's license, which is a felony. If we get a dealer's license, they say we are not really in business,
    and report us to our local authorities for violating zoning ordinances by running a commercial venture out
    of a residence.
    "If the steel or the wood on our guns is too long or too short, they make us pay $200 taxes and get
    fingerprinted and photographed. They make us get a law enforcement certification from the local police
    chief. If he refuses to sign we have no recourse. If he takes the forms in the next room and brings them
    back out, signed, he can later claim the signature is not his, and the feds will charge us with the felony.
    "We in the gun culture have played all their stupid games on NFA weapons for over half a century, without
    a single violent crime being committed by any person in the system. So when a bill comes up to keep
    travelers with guns locked in the trunk of their cars out of jail, what happens? A scumbucket from New
    Jersey, where NFA weapons are illegal already, puts an amendment on it that closes down the whole NFA
    "Then, if they even suspect we've ignored the $200 tax process altogether, on the guns where the wood and
    steel is too long or too short, they'll spend over a million dollars watching us for months, then they'll shoot
    our wives and children or burn us all alive. When the public gets outraged by these actions, the government
    issues letters of reprimand and sends the guys who did the killing on paid leave. In the decades that the feds
    have been raiding and killing people in the gun culture over suspected non-payment of $200 taxes, not one
    federal agent has been fined a single dollar or spent even one night in jail." Fleming stopped for a moment
    and took another drink of tea.
    "And you know something else that's never happened, Ray? To this day, not a single person in the gun

    culture has ever dropped the hammer on one of these feds. Not once.
    "Then, after these statist bastards have done all these things, they grin and tell us how they like to hunt
    ducks, and how the only laws they want to pass are 'reasonable' ones." Henry and Ray both looked at their
    friend. Neither had anything to add at that moment. It was Ray Johnson who finally spoke.
    "I now know everything you say is true," he said. "I still can't quite believe it." He was quiet again, then
    asked a question. "What do you think is going to happen?"
    "One of two things," Fleming said with a sigh. "One of the political parties is going to have to wake up,
    smell the coffee, and start restoring and reaffirming all the articles in the Bill of Rights—the Second,
    Fourth, Fifth, and Tenth Amendments."
    "And if that doesn't happen?" Ray asked gently. Fleming took several moments before he spoke, though it
    was obvious he knew exactly what he was going to say.
    "Then we're going to have a civil war."
  7. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Unintended Consequences?
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Has to be. That's the first thing crossing my MT mind box when Henry popped up. Those of us that can't afford to play with a Swedish 20mm will have to settle for beat up MNs and shoot for practice when the price is right on a case of Bulgarian.

    But back to the case at hand: SCOTUS is going to do something this session. I'm betting the ruling is very narrow, not a complete negation of all the various state and local regulations. I haven't read Sonia's rulings, so can't comment on any specific cases, but I can say with some certainty that neither she nor any other judge strayed from the laws as written. Remember who wrote the laws, and point the finger squarely at our "representatives" in the various legislative bodies. By the time a case reaches the supremes, there is seldom any research left to do, and interpretation becomes paramount. Very seldom is there law "made" by activist judges, they are (usually) interpreting the written word. There is an art to that subject to slant --
  9. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    ya think?
  10. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Unintended consequences... good time for a "re-read"..
  11. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    John Ross is usually at the Fall Knob Creek Shoot. I always buy a couple more copies of Unintended Consequences because nobody that borrows my copy to read ever bothers to return it. I'll bet I have lost ten signed copies over the years.
  12. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Yep. Been years since I read it. Like Sea I have had several copies over the years but they get loaned out and never come back.
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