No to No Knock Raids

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Yard Dart, May 15, 2014.


  1. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    This Is Why They Should Knock First: Multiple Cops Shot, One Killed in No Knock Raid |
    Police should be required nationally to announce themselves prior to any entry to a private residence.... a lot of needless bloodshed would be avoided......
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
  2. William Antrum

    William Antrum GunMetal Monkey

  3. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    [alllies] [whipem] :D
     
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  4. William Antrum

    William Antrum GunMetal Monkey

    Who lies?
     
  5. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    I was goofing on the sarcasm....not suggesting anything more :)
     
    William Antrum likes this.
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    "No Nock" was invented, so as to not give the occupants time to destroy evidence, before the LEOs could effect Entry.... In Drug based Warrants.... So, what is the justification for using this approach, where Evidence Destruction is NOT an issue? If I was a LEO Policy Setter, I would tell my Officers, Three Things.
    1. If you mess up the Warrant Application, with un-cooberated information, or get the wrong Name, or Address, You WILL be TERMINATED, FOR Cause, Period, no question.
    2. If you kill an Unarmed Civilian, you will be put on Desk Duty/Probation for 1 Year, and you WILL be REQUIRED, to ReCertify, at whatever Authority your State has for LEO Training & Certification, before that Year of Probation is up. If you do Not, you WILL be Terminated for Cause.
    3. If you follow these Rules/Policies, I will back you 100%, Baring your Breach, of any other Unit Policy, in place, at the time.

    I would not stand, for ANY BS, on these points, Period. If you want to Protect & Serve..... Welcome to my Unit, If you want to be a Cowboy, there are Ranches in Nevada & Wyoming that will employ you.....
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
    Yard Dart likes this.
  7. William Antrum

    William Antrum GunMetal Monkey

    and the emoticon in the middle reminds me of pulp fiction for some reason...
     
    Yard Dart likes this.
  8. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Can not agree on this one. If you kill an unarmed civilian that is not an immediate threat to your life you should be charged with murder or manslaughter just like we would.
     
  9. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I would tell my Officers, If you kill an Unarmed Civilian, you will be put on Desk Duty/Probation for 1 Year, and you WILL be REQUIRED, to ReCertify, at whatever Authority your State has for LEO Training & Certification, before that Year of Probation is up. If you do Not, you WILL be Terminated for Cause...
    .
    I also could not support this as written.
    .
    Quasi Military training is fine for dealing with Terrorists, Gangs, Organized Crime, Severe Hostage Situations where deadly force by the perp is more than just suspect. In most all cases It is not necessary when dealing with suicidal individuals that are no threat to anyone but themselves. In most cases it is not necessary when dealing with solo drunks. I have got off track of what I wanted to say because I feel Quasi Military training and mindset is at the heart of a lot of the BS that happens when LEOs and the Civilian population as a whole come into contact with each other. Excessive use of force in any low threat scenario is unacceptable. The mindset of going to the gun first and foremost is unacceptable as well. Every case of an officer removing his weapon from his holster should be required to be reported by that officer in his reports to his supervisor (no exception). Actually firing ones weapon should be reviewed in depth!
    .
    Any LEO who shoots or shoots and kills an unarmed civilian should be investigated closely and openly as if he or she were not above the law. If charges of unacceptable use of deadly force, manslaughter, or murder are deemed to be appropriate to the situation, so be it! If said officer is subsequently found guilty in a court of law they should suffer the consequences no different than a civilian. Not everyone is suited to being a police officer.
     
  10. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    @tacmotusn , every time that guns clears leather, a report IS filed. There is actually less paperwork if someone dies. (According to my cop brother-in-law). He has to account for WHY it was pulled.
    I am NOT saying it has anything to do with shooting or not shooting a civilian!
     
  11. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I am aware you are a LEO. I am not and never have been. Are you sure this is the required in every City, County, State, and or Federal Law Enforcement Agency? Almost none of us live in a vacuum and enter other jurisdictions.
     
  12. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I am NOT an LEO. My wife's side of the family are almost all cops.
    And NO, I can only speak of what I know, which is local. But I would expect similar standards elsewhere.
     
  13. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Maybe I am a cynic, but I believe common sense is dead, and assuming anything or expecting anything is the road to disappointment.
     
    Tracy, Mountainman and Yard Dart like this.
  14. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I still have faith in my fellow man. its government I have no faith in.
     
  15. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    How can you have faith in your fellow man? Man is greedy, sinful, does evil acts, often lacks morals, ethics, and is not civil towards their fellow man. Just look at the reelection of Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama as examples of how stupid the majority of Americans are in the face of the truth. HOW? It is a government elected by it's peoples!
     
    Mountainman likes this.
  16. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    You are looking Macro, I'm looking micro. If I had no faith in those around me, there would be no reason to fight what is happening to my country. If there is nothing worth saving, then just throw in the towel, and walk away.
    As long as there is outrage, as long as there is a hope of success, you must have faith in people.
     
  17. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I have faith in my tribe, but the numbers seldom lie. I am not a pacifist, and I do not turn the other cheek easily if at all. Peaceful civil disobedience has worked in the past. Violence seldom does, as the Beast is so huge and the media, military for the most part, bankers, huge government, and low information walking talking often voting idiots are all stacked against us. Man has disappointed me time and time again. I can't help being a cynic. It is what it is. A very crappy situation.
     
  18. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    You know that you can not gain or lose money in the stock market unless you sell, right? I decided early on, to believe in my fellow man, and to trust to his own self interest to grow his business. My company matches funds in my retirement account, and I picked the stocks in US companies I believe will grow with time. I have never waivered from those choices.
    I believe in growth, or die, and if I chose wrongly, I will work till the day I die.
    So yes, TAC, I have faith in my fellow man, and I have laid my bet accordingly.
     
  19. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    Man is just another animal in the kingdom. We can be team oriented, loners, pacifist, activist or evil......amongst all the other traits we could list. Like a pack of dogs we will bond with the same intent, survival. And within that pack their will be leaders and followers... those just content to live another day, and those intent on growing the pack to greater things. Outside of that pack will be those that have been pushed out, those from other tribes with different opinions on how to survive... and they are always those looking to take what you have or just to eliminate you because you are a threat to their designs. Man is an animal and just as unpredictable as a bear in the woods....

    I would like to have faith in my fellow man... but as Tac said, if they are outside of my tribe.... that faith in them waivers with every move they make jeopardizing my opportunity for survival.... and the government (which is supposed to just be an extension of We The People) is doing just that.... and my fellow man is doing little overall to check that government.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  20. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    [ditto][bestpost]
     
    Yard Dart likes this.
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