North Dakota access pipeline protests- Anonymous

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GhostX, Nov 1, 2016.


  1. GhostX

    GhostX Monkey

    I know you guys might be getting a little burned out with the anonymous posts but I find what they have been doing to be very inspiring. I have chickasaw heritage and seeing this has really struck a nerve for me. So many tribes are coming together to protest what is a blatant violation of a treaty that was guaranteed to these people back in the 1800s. Like so many other things, it's just swept under the rug and ignored by most people.

    I've been thinking about heading up to North Dakota to show my support for these people by standing with them on the front lines.

     
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    This is a golden opportunity for you to test out your preps, if you have enough resolve to show your support. Remember, it's cold and real up there this time of year.
     
  3. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    If the Treaty information is true, then the protestors have a point. However, they are playing the "all land is sacred land to us" card as the excuse for the protest from the beginning and have initiated violence. The current response for security IMO is fully warranted due to the previous violence. It would have been nice if Mark Ruffalo had done more than referencing the treaty and actually had gone into it and how/why that land was no longer under Indian control.
     
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  4. GhostX

    GhostX Monkey

    This has gone far enough I think. Too many contracts and deals switching hands behind people's backs. I'm frustrated and I know so many others are too. This video shows how the natives have corrected their violent protests and have gone peaceful... even though they have every right to be pissed. All this pushing and shoving should NOT be acceptable! The media blackouts should NOT be tolerated! There's an agenda here to walk all over these people and fill a rich man's pockets. I don't give a crap how much it cost, this is their land!
     
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    It is NOT Reservation Land, and never was Reservation Land.... They do NOT Own it, and never did Own it.... If they think there is a Treaty Violation, take it to Federal Court, where such things are settled. OH, That's Right.... They already did that... and LOST..... What these folks need to do, is build a few Casinos, and get rich off the Foolish White and Asian Races by taking their MONEY, like the California Native Americans, and most of the other Tribes have done.... There are a lot smaller Tribes that have done well, fleecing the Foolish WhiteMan, out of his Gambling Money.... Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of Foolish WhiteMen....
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
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  6. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    Which treaty the United States made and broke so many with us you gotta be specific :) In 1876/1877 treaty was not so much a treaty but perm. established the interment camps as Reservations (AKA Prisoner of War Camps) Forced the Blackhills to be ceded in the cede or starve portion of the treaty. This was largely due to gold being discovered in the blackhills and the rush of miners violating the 1868 treaty and US Calvary starting the 1876 campaigns to remove us from the black hills areas. That was determined by the Supreme Court to have been illegal but rather than the Black Hills being returned Monetary compensation was ordered to which there was a collective refusal.

    The 1889 land grab came down to if you don't sign the land away the US Government will seize it and forcibly remove everyone. This was part of the Dakotas becoming states and more importantly increasing the land that could be settled and getting the Rail Road to the black hills mining operations.

    The 1910 land grab was to further reduce L/D/N lands in what was called checker boarding and cut much of the remaining tribal lands into 320 acre squares that were then sold by the Government to the colonist. Sometimes you will hear the term checker board reservation, this is how it came to be. The seized tracts of land were the most fertile and suitable for cattle or cropping.

    As a point of fact we do consider all land sacred, that is not a card we play :) With each passing year fewer and fewer of us recognize any treaty after the 1868 treaty as they were illegal in that they used the threat of Seizure, Starvation and Death. The ancestors of that time were wore down, far too many dead, and everyone starving. The bison had been exterminated, the hunting grounds for other game made forbidden and the liquor getting a firm hold in the addiction department. HIStory books are very different that the truth and reality. I was born on Pine Ridge and am 50% Oglala, My Mother is at the Standing Rock Protest Camp and the violence released in the heavily armed raid against unarmed Lakota, Dakota and Nakota peoples and their allies was in no way warranted or acceptable. Unless you think soaking a old woman with pepper spray, tazing her, zip tying her hands and feet and dragging her off to a dog kennel and writing numbers on her with a sharpie is acceptable, because she was a instigator.
     
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  7. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    Sorry but you are dead wrong this is 1868 treaty land, do you really expect a federal court that represents a genocidal culture to rule in the favor of the people they are slowly eradicating? It is clear you have no idea of the LDN and our values. We don't want the money, never have, if that was the case we would have accepted the big pay day when the supreme court ordered compensation for the Black Hills, we don't want compensation we simply want our illegally seized lands back :)
     
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  8. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    m
     

    Attached Files:

  9. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Respectfully, your map shows the maximum extent of Indian lands per treaty to be west of the Missouri River. The pipeline is east of the Missouri:
    upload_2016-11-1_14-8-5.
    upload_2016-11-1_14-8-38.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
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  10. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Once you make an agreement you have to honor it. I'm with you that lands taken away after an agreement was reached need to be returned. I'm not an expert in the history of these treaties, but if the Indian Nations did not agree to treaties post the first one then the lands should still belong to them.
     
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  11. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    HOWEVER, They DID AGREE, and Signed on the Dotted Line.... T5R even said so.... He just disputes the conditions under which the Later Treaties, were signed... Also remember that the Native Americans went to WAR with the US Army, after the Treaty of 1868, AND LOST, and it was these Later Treaties that he disputes.... NOW... and this all happened over 90+ Years ago.... long before anyone ALIVE today, was around.... In WAR, one side WINS, and one side Loses... The Winners dictate the terms of the Treaty, that ends the Hostilities... T5R.... You want to go to WAR, with the US Army, Again, and try and reclaim your Lands, NOW? Go to Federal Court, that is where Civilized Societies settle disputes... Your other options are WAR, or Whine....
     
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  12. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Seriously? Seriously?



    With the history we have, it might serve to remember (if it's part of memory at all) the past.
    The native Americans were all but exterminated.
    Treaties have been broken.

    At this point in time, with corporate cartels running things, one ought to expect every last white man to get on their knees and weep instead of using the might of the Gestapo and running their pipelines to further destroy the land and rape the Earth. Since when does the Federal Court give a rats patootie about the natives (what remains of them)? As though the Federal Courts are beyond reproach and infallible? Civilized societies? I assert there's nothing civil about this nation.
     
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  13. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Lets not forget the power mad blood lust our gov has toward any one who has something that our Gov wants or wants control of! Spanish American war ring a bell? And then we get pizzed off in the late 1930's because another nation desires a share in what the U.S. has a monopoly over? Lets remember who we are dealing with here, A Fed Gov that is run amook with power and corruption run by banks and corporations that dictate terms that only benefit those in power not those who have what they want!!!
     
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  14. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    If I may offer this:

    In 2012, the Census Bureau estimated that of an estimated population of 833,354, --
    86.2% of South Dakotans were White,
    8.9% were American Indian or Alaskan Native,
    3.1% were Hispanic or Latino,
    1.7% were Black or African American,
    1.1% were Asian, and
    0.1% were Pacific Islander or Native Hawaiian.

    As an aside:
    From 2007 to 2011, the American Community Survey (more FedGov being nosy) estimated that
    42.8% (345,951) of South Dakotans were of German ancestry,
    14.7% (118,603) were Norwegian,
    11.1% (89,912) were Irish,
    6.9% (55,425) were English, and
    4.9% (39,420) were Dutch.[8]

    In the 2000 census (Constitutional prying) , the five largest ancestry groups in South Dakota were: German (40.7%), Norwegian (15.3%), Irish (10.4%), Native American (8.3%), and English (7.1%). German-Americans are the largest ancestry group in most parts of the state, especially in the east, although there are also large Scandinavian populations in some counties.

    Well, by now you have got to be asking "What the hell is his point?".

    Alaska has a population of ~710K, of which 14.8% is Alaska Native, with many more of mixed race (Native + something else)

    My Point - for decades the Alaska Native population (Native = Indian for the L48 folks) pretty much got crapped on by everyone from the BIA (Boss Indians Around) to local Burrough bureaucrats.

    The various tribal groups got together and started sending their kids to college - esp Law school. They didn't riot or cry to the Press. They went to War. In court. Natives now hold appointed leadership positions in key Agencies that matter to their population. Native Corporations can legally exclude all non-Natives. And so it goes.

    The current State level administration has a Native as the Lt. Governor. So it may take a while, but going after your rights/land/heritage/etc may take a while in court. But once won, it has better protection than might be offered by a Treaty signed ages ago and ignored by nearly everyone. I would note that internal tribal politics/internecine warfare is far more damaging to the greater whole than many realize.

    Anyway - just something to think about if folks are looking for real, lasting change.

    /out here.
     
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  15. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    Why did we go to war with the United States in 1876? Simple answer the United States refused to honor their own treaty of 1868. Ahhh the "Get over it defense, that was a long time ago." Except it was not a long time ago. It was only yesterday and and the day before and the day before and tomorrow and the day after. There are more ways to fight than a rigged court system or with weapons :)

    No argument there, every Rez has serious issues with infighting, addiction, and violence among different factions. The one thing most of us agree on in that is the remedy for those problems will not be found in the core source of those problems. Whether Rez, mixed blood or Urban NdN these are our internal problems and being refugees in our own lands only compounds those problems. From fist contact to present we want nothing to do with the United Snakes of America but the US is like some twisted pervert that keeps forcing itself on us.

    A contract made under the threat of death is not a valid contract. It becomes even less valid when the murderer does not honor their own contract. A treaty is just that a contract only in this case there is no recourse for the aggrieved parties.

    Guess I should have gone back to the 1851 treaty lands map :) Either way the pipeline will eventually break and poison the only source of water not only for standing rock, but crow creek, and lower brule. The fact that the pipeline was intentionally routed away from white towns because of pollution risk should say something.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2016
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  16. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Yes, I have to agree. The main point here is does the land belong to the them by the treaty - if not game over - if so then they have a valid grievance. Unfortunately, I don't have enough information to make even a reasonable yea or nay comment but I do point out that the report said the owners/builder of the pipeline went to court and proved they own the land so... Also, if this country is to get off foreign oil then we have these things, like it or not. The Alaskan pipeline in located in much more remote area and also in severe climate and has done fairly well for many years. From what was on the report and just from what I have read and remember, this is not the government but a private company building the pipeline on their own land...so it's not an Eminent Domain issue...as far as I know. The Tribes just don't like it running so close and through their lands. We need more information...
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
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  17. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I have no dog in this fight, land rights are beyond anything I've studied or know much of, BUT I know about pipelines. The main concern if I get it right, is the possible spoilage of land and water due to leaks. Experience, many, many thousands of operating hours, with a very few, very small short term damages from leaks or anything else tells the tale. Rabble rousers crying about crapping up gaia tend to inflame and exaggerate the potential for difficulties. With all due respect to those who think they are going to be wronged, they need to do the research from a scientific and engineering standpoint, not the Michael Moore and hangers-on positions.

    With interest noted, the AK native populations have and are fighting their battles in the courts with native lawyers. Methinks it would be a very good thing if the associated tribes would send some of their folks to both engineering and law schools if they haven't already.

    Here in the north east, we have NIMBYs to the nth power, all squalling about the damages that will (they think and say) be done with natural gas pipelines. I know about them, too. NOT ONE OF THEM IS TECHNICALLY TRAINED. Every one of them comes from liberal training and particularly from performing arts. They KNOW how to get points out emotionally, not rationally, and as a rule, they are simply gut reactions based on imagination. With all the hundreds of miles of new pipelines that have gone in around here in the last 10 years or so, there have been ZERO unresolved problems during installation or operation.

    Now, I will sit down and shuddup. I expect to get schooled in some aspects of this business, and probably need it; just not on pipelines.

    If we are lucky, @GhostX will do as he mentioned and go up there and send us some factual reports from on scene.
     
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  18. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    Never mind I have been there, have family there now.... Guess the wagon burners have no credibility here or in this. I will let you get back to the good ole white bois networking.
     
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  19. GhostX

    GhostX Monkey

    There are already quite a few people in my home town who feel the same outrage that I do. These people need help to protect their lands! BT, if there was a way to dislike your comments, I would have. You have lost sight of what it means to be a being of this earth and you should know inside yourself that this is fucking wrong! The U.S. is based on greed and corruption and is essentially a mafia that just takes what it wants. The line was crossed long ago and violence did result but the people were beaten back because there were too few to take a stand... don't you realize that this is something that WILL affect everyone eventually? These big name companies have a private army in their pockets to bend the common people to their will. They will apply excessive force to extort these people and cheat them out of what is rightfully theirs just like they have been doing for hundreds of years. It needs to stop God Damn it!

    WE allow them to prevail with our silence! WE allow them to get away with atrocity after atrocity! WE allow our own lives to be shattered because the protests of the few are not joined by the many who just choose to ignore it! It's just easier to get lost in a fucking TV show or a video game and pretend like the rest of the world doesn't exist. Let's just go drink some beer... smoke some cigarettes... be the self centered fucks we were designed to be by the mainstream media programming.

    The thing is, when they DO come for you, there might not be anyone left to speak up for you. It's time to start giving a shit while we can still do something about it. If I get arrested, maced, tazered, shot or beaten half to death, it will all be worth it because at least I'm not a fucking coward!

    I'm organizing a group to go and protest soon. I'm quitting my job and I'm starting a new chapter of my life. If my life is going to stand for anything or have any meaning when I reach my end, I hope it will show that I cared enough to act when others did not.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
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  20. GhostX

    GhostX Monkey

    Once I'm out there on the front lines, I'm going to take pictures of every opposing officer with their face and badge number so that it can be properly documented who exactly it is that is oppression these peaceful people. The history books should have proper and specific documentation of the people who are turning this country into something it was never intended to be.
     
  21. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Born and raised in the central valley or Oregon, I am well aware of Gov and private interests in taking the common man out of the picture and seizing land that has been owned for generations! I know first hand the tactics and troubles these two monsters can bring and the devastation they leave behind in the wake! What the American Gov has done to the people of this country is a crime with out president. And in fact, it has been doing just that for hundreds of years! Have something a private business wants, or the Gov, they stack the deck and flood the issue with money and you and I have no chance of a fair fight! Add to this a Corporate owned For Profit Justice System designed to protect the wealthy and powerful elite's and we are doomed right out of the gate! I feel for the Native American, I do, but what chance do any tribes left think they have? Unless this entire country rises up and takes control of it's own destiny, For ever lost we will be! Maybe that IS our destiny!!! I do not know, and I haven't a clue what to do, but I will not give up or give in! I fought wars and conflicts FOR this country so that we could maintain a way of life, Little did this once young and naive man know that it was all a great big fucking lie, A Shame!!! I fought and bled for the ideals of this once great nation, but it makes me sick to know the truth of what I was actually fighting for, Uber rich and powerful ass holes who desire only money and absolute power and control. What has been done to all the peoples of this long ago great nation should not be allowed and should be undone any way possible, but short of a Revolution, we stand absolutely no chance in hell of righting any of the thousands of wrongs!!! Until we destroy the elite's and the power mad of this Country, we will always and forever be the down trodden slaves of the system, to be used and abused under the illusions of freedoms we have to ask permission for! Whisky Tango Foxtrot!!! Sorry for the rant, but this is one major hot topic for me! Off the soap Box,, back to our regular scheduled programming.
     
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