Not only do you need guns... you need bigger ones and good shot placement

Discussion in 'Turf and Surf Hunting and Fishing' started by Witch Doctor 01, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    NOt only do you need guns... you need bigger guns and good shot placement...

    Wounded Grizzly Kills Hunter
    A hunter was killed by a wounded grizzly bear in Idaho after he yelled out at the animal to lure it away from his younger hunting partner, according to the man's family. Steve Stevenson, 39, who shot the bear, died in the attack on the Idaho-Montana border. He was at least the third person killed by grizzlies in the U.S. since July. He and Ty Bell, 20, were part of a four-man hunting party from Nevada tracking black bears in the mountains. "They both shot it and it kept coming," Stevenson's mother, Janet Price, said. "Steve yelled at it to try and distract it, and it swung around and took him down. It's what my son would have done automatically, for anybody."

    Read it at Associated Press September 18, 2011 8:16 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2015
  2. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I didn't see it in the article, but I was wondering what rifle round they were using?

    Also, as hunters they should be able to correctly identify the target. I know that Grizzly & Black bears may look the same but they are different animals all together.

    And I agree, shot placement is the key. Years ago my dad and his cousin went bear hunting, the only thing my dad had was a 30-30. His cousin told him it wouldn't work. Well guess who was the only one to bring home a one-shot kill? Yup, my dad.
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    As one who actually LIVES in Bear Country, and have both Coastal Brown Bears (BIG) and Black Bears (SemiBIG)as Neighbors, there is a few things, folks NEED to understand.
    1. You are NOT on top of the Food Chain, even if you carry a Canon around with you.
    2. Both these species are not, particularly, interested in EATING you, 90% of the time. Humans are NOT a regular Menu Item for Bears.
    3. If you injure a Bear, then He/she will certainly not be in such a disinterested Mood, and it is time to finish the JOB as quickly as possible.
    4. The bears, (Brown or Black) one has to particularly careful with, are Juvenile Males that have just left Momma, and haven't quite figured out how to feed themselves yet, and OLD Bears that are to slow to catch much of their normal Menu Items. To these Bears, you are an easy Meal. the young Males are not yet smart enough to know you a threat, and dangerous. They learn that fairly quickly, with an encounter or two, and as they get better at catching their meals. The Old Ones, are just on the edge of Starvation, and Grumpy, and you are just a Meal of Opportunity.

    That Idiot, (the "Bear Man" Timmy Treadwell) that got himself munched along with his Girlfriend, ran into a very Old Coastal Brown Bear, just before winter, that wanted nothing more that a easy meal. So they got MUNCHED. The rest of the bears in that area ignored the Idiot for YEARS....

    ..... YMMV.....
    Mountainman, VisuTrac and tacmotusn like this.
  4. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Like with any population - never piss off 'the Old Man'........
    Opinionated and VisuTrac like this.
  5. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    You fellows are not making me worry free. Have two sons new to Alaska's wilderness threats. They carry a 500 S&W and a 454 Casull. They have bought a little sluice box and have been fishing several times. I gave the oldest an extended mag 12 gauge Mossy plus he has several 30s to chose from. The younger has his 300 Weatherby Mag, 45-70 lever, and his 12 pump. They are well armed but still have not met any fur bearers up close. Hope their first goes well and preps them for others.
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    The Handguns are all for show and of little use in the bush of Alaska... The shotguns are of REAL value, as is the 45/70 Lever Gun. A 300 Wetherby Mag is a bit of an overkill, unless they happen to be up on the Northern Coast hunting Polar Bears. Situational Awareness is far superior, to an Handgun that you can name... or shoot..... ..... YMMV.....
  7. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Have you seen a S&W 500; I've read they are popular in Alaska.

    440 gr @ 1,625 ft/s is one serious handful. :eek:
  8. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    None of the Guides I know carry a Hand Gun, for protection, they will have one as a Meat Gun, but not for protection. Mostly they are .357 or 44 Mag with lighter Loads. Anything bigger doesn't leave much Meat when you shoot a Marmot or Ground Chuck. Predator Protection is a 45-70 Guide Rifle or Shotgun with Slugs ands 00 Buck. Troopers will be packing Shotguns, for Protection, and their Duty Hand Gun usually a 9 mm, .40, or the like. ADF&G Field Folks will pack Rifles with .308 or Bigger Calibers, or in heavy Brush Country a ShotGun. That is the standard Package used up here, no matter what you read in any Gun Rag.... ...... YMMV....
    PLA likes this.
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Confirmed by anecdote. Some years ago, my father (who was in his early 80s at the time) fulfilled a life long dream and went fly fishing for salmon someplace up that way. Not a cheap item on his bucket list, but boy howdy he enjoyed it. Hired a guide, bush pilot, the whole ball of wax. His guide stood on the bank above the fishing hole(s) with the rifle at the ready. The capper to the story was that while fishing, no bears appeared, nor evidently any other wildlife worth the mention. But, as they were flying out over the fishing hole, two grizz were fishing in the same spot. I specifically asked about the rifle the guide had, and it was a 45 -70 lever gun.

    He's fishing better streams now, these last ten years or so. He told that story with high relish. (And left his camera in the lodge that day.)
    BTPost likes this.
  10. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Not too many eons ( years) back I was contemplating moving to Alaska. My first idea was to contact Park Rangers and Fish and Game officers to see what they suggested I carry for the bruins up there.
    I was told by everyone of them to carry a 12 gauge shotgun, loaded with slugs. I was even told they preferred the Brenekke rifled slugs. Then I was informedof where and how to stop a bear. Not kill it, as that's secondary....
    Shoot the bear in the shoulder, breaking it...It can't chase or run after you. Then, you can take your time in dispatching it from there.
    Seems like damned good advice!
    Here in the desert, I rarely carry a tube load of slugs, mostly 00 buckshot...for them mountain lions, small bears, coyotes, etc.
    hank2222 and BTPost like this.
  11. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Thats because they don't have one of these...

  12. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    a single shot 50BMG...


    Here are a few of the specs provided:
    • Caliber: 50 caliber Browning Machine Gun (BMG)
    • Type: Handgun/ Single Shot
    • Practical Purpose: Sporting, Big Game Hunting (Tyrannosaurs?), Collecting
    • Action: Scissor breach/separate cocking lever/separate case ejector
    • Empty Weight: 12lbs
    • Barrel Length:13.2" (9.8" to bullet base)
    • Overall Length: 16.9"
    • Standard Options: High efficiency muzzle brake, "Nitrogen recoil controller"
    • Trigger pull: 1 to 12 lbs - Factory set to specifications
    With 647gr FMJ ammo, using iron sights, the posted data says they gun is capable of a 1.8" group at 25 yards (from kneeling/supported position). This bullet comes out at 2188 fps, and delivers 6875 fpe!
    With a 750 bullet (showing a ballistic coefficient of .82), the gun prints as follows:
    Muzzle: 2160 fps and 7767 fpe
    100 yards: 2070 fps and 7133 fpe
    200 yards: 1980 fps and 6526 fpe
    500 yards: 1700 fps and 4811 fpe
    1000 yards: 1350 fps and 3033 fpe
  13. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

  14. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

  15. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I would be willing to bet, that the Guy selling the 50BMG Handgun, can't match the 45-70 Lever Action, in accuracy and Second Shot Reloading, times. Not being able to do that, would make the 50BMG Hand Cannon, just a Novelty Weapon, and not really useful in the REAL World of the Alaskan Bush. The Stainless Steel version of the venerable 45-70 GuideGun, is about the best weapon going, up here, for 90% of the folks who actually LIVE out in the bush, Year round. For FlatLanders, that are NOT here to stay, the 12 GA Pump Shotgun with Extended Magazine, loaded with Slugs and 00Buck, is the best weapon, and considerably cheaper than a GuideGun. ..... YMMV....
  16. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Nice article, Quigley

    It's well written, informative and entertaining....a nice trifecta! : )
  17. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Maybe there's a place for a small gun 'n a bigger projectile

    Not every fly fisherman has a guide with a big bore rifle at their 6 to provide bear overwatch. Maybe there's a case for something in the pocket or holster if you have nothing bigger at hand while you're working at landing that trophy trout.

    A possible option (you can argue the merits of it or otherwise) is a 45 /70 derringer. It throws a 45/70 slug, perhaps with not quite the same muzzle velocity of a long arm, but with the option of a .410 slug to follow the 45 / 70. if the bear remains unpersuaded. It might not be much, but it's better than beating off a bear with a graphite fly fishing rod.

    45-70 derringer - YouTube

    M4 Alaskan Survival .45-70 Derringer - YouTube

    or perhaps a Magnum Research 45 / 70 BFR

    45-70 Revolver by Magnum Research , One Handed Shooting 45-70 BFR - YouTube

    with the option of sending 5 rounds of 45 /70 at an aggravated grizzly. Recoil is a lot less than the derringer and re-cocking is much simpler.
    (I'm not sure that they make speed loaders for the 45 / 70 lol ; ) )

    Magnum Research maker of the world's most powerful handguns
  18. Sumex

    Sumex Monkey+


    what a recoil from that Derringer,,,,

  19. teeter

    teeter Monkey+

    the big handguns might as well be 20 ga's, using slugs. Same level of power, but less bullet diameter. nobody considers the 20 ga a bear stopper, even tho an auto shotgun can get 3x as many hits as a .500 pistol, in the same time. So forget the pistol bs, that's all it is, bs. you might as well have a pocket 9mm, cause you are going to have to shove it up against his temple, under his chin, in his eye or ear to stop him.
  20. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

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