Number Crunching

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Gator 45/70, Jan 21, 2012.

  1. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    So out in the Gulf and just thinking if...

    There are approx. 15 million hunters in the U.S.
    Then that make's us the largest standing army in the world.

    25% of the U.S. Armed force's will take up arm's against the people...
    Will the remaining 75% take up arm's against the 25%.?

    You would split a new silver dollar (long way's)...
    Would all the silver be on one side...?
    and if so...How many would make an ounce.?
  2. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    1. We could hope
    2. No silver in a Silver dollar since 1935 peace dollar. * 1971-1976 Ikes out of sets from the mint had silver but ..

    All the rest are nickel clad copper. No silver in them.
    Gator 45/70 and Falcon15 like this.
  3. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    It all depends how you define "standing army"

    It all depends how you define "standing army"

    15 million people who hunt and own firearms are not of themselves a standing army, in the same way that a population of 15 million wolves don't constitute an enormous wolf pack.

    A standing army is an organisation of the paid permanent armed forces
    of a nation, both full and part time components, but not inactive reservists.

    15 million hunters are effectively individuals without a central command structure and command authority. Some may well be organised to a greater or lesser extent into voluntary militias, but such groupings could not be said to constitute a standing army as such.

    In the scenario that you have painted, what 15 million hunters might provide is a large number of micro armies working independantly or in coalition with each other in a domestic insurgency.

    It is hard to estimate what proportion of the armed forces would countenance following orders that would oppress their fellow countrymen and women. One can but trust that each man and woman will find it within themselves to follow their conscience and the spirit of the Constitution that they have sworn to commit themselves to to guide their decisions.

    One thing that should be noted is that not all of the 15 million hunters may support a popular insurrection against an oppressive dictatorial government. As was evident during WWII various self serving quisling armies, militias and paramilitary police forces emerged to support the dictators. Not only is the situation likely to be a domestic insurgency, it will be a civil war, dirty and messy as it gets, without much recourse to the LOAC.

    Another thing to consider is that the scenario being contemplated may not be just a domestic bunfight with no involvement by outsiders. Other external agencies are like to exploit the instability by supporting one side or another (or, indeed both sides) as best suits their own objectives. One could well anticipate the PRC's equivalent of the CIA to help reduce the USA's capabilities as a "global policeman" by providing material support to the insurgents (for a price...maybe a compliant puppet government???)...but that would undoubtedly be balanced against the PRC's economic interests in maintaining the USA as a stable econonomic and political entity.
    UGRev likes this.
  4. Nadja

    Nadja RIP 3-11-2013 Forum Leader

    15 million hunters. OK, but most will pp in their panties when lead is in the air, especially when zipping just over their heads. What I would consider as a realistic type of scenario would actually be a little like Red Dawn. Small groups of semi mobile people doing the hit and run type of thing. Not really a match for an organized army.
    larryinalabama and Seawolf1090 like this.
  5. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey+++

    Maybe not a match for an organized army if you are talking about pitched battles, but spending 8 months dodging IEDs taught me a lot about what a few dedicated people can do.
  6. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    15 million Hunters, so figure 1.5-2 million willing to fight & becoming Snipers & Guerrilla Fighters
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  7. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Small groups can be a force to reckon with. It only takes ONE well-placed shot to take out the opposition's tactical leader.
    One well-placed 'device' to take out their ammo or fuel supply or power.
    Harrassment tactics can wear down the largest army.
    Or bypass the military leadership - go for the political leaders. Cut the head off the snake.
    We need to be learning from our Vietnam and Desert War veterans how their enemies fought - we may need that knowledge one day.
    We can't go head to head vs. a well-eqipped army - but that didn't keep the NVA and Vietcong from ultimately defeating us off the battlefield.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  8. goinpostal

    goinpostal Monkey+++

    Most"accomplished"hunters are,very accurate long distance shooters,with High caliber rifles,that are glassed for long range shooting.
    Not to knock our military,or police,but most of our soldiers,and cops are not the greatest shooters even at 100yrds.
    I dont know about anyone else,but I would take 10 hunters with high powered bolt guns,over 100soldiers with poodle shooters any day of the week.
    How many of those hunters are former military,former cops,militia,or like myself former merc's?
    Then there are are those that would desert the armed forces in droves to our side as well.
    Things may be one sided at first becouse of a lack of equiptment,but I dont think it would last.
    I do believe the streets would run red in rivers of blood before it was resolved though.
    jungatheart, Cephus and Gator 45/70 like this.
  9. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I would put it to you all, that the classic AMERICAN Example of this Hit and Run Gorilla Warfare technique is the Mormon's defense of Utah, against Johnston's Army, just before the Civil War.... Less than 500 Utah Men, forced a whole Army, to winter at Fort Laramie, and march thru SaltLake City with Arms slung... Never a major Face to Face conflict, with the OpForce, but essentially destroyed their Supply Line, and Supply Train, with no loss of life, due to combat, on either side. This is a case of folks knowing the country, terrain, and fighting for their OWN Homes and Families. They invented "Scorched Earth Warfare"..... . .... Utah is NOT the place to try and impose Military Law on the Civilian Population... They have HISTORY of dealing with such BS... YMMV.....
    STANGF150, Cephus and Gator 45/70 like this.
  10. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Actually ever male in China is required to serve in their military thus liklely making them the largest standing army in the history of man.

    Still no match for 15million American hunters
  11. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Take away Grandpaws Social Seurity and you will see a fighter
  12. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey+++

    You do not win a war if someone is still fighting you even when you control the land. Ask the VC who won.
  13. Espada

    Espada Monkey+

    When you watch the people in Egypt, Syria, Iran, and elsewhere trying lately to cause change in their own countries' governments, you never see anybody armed in the confrontations except the government.

    The Libyans, while probably not constitutionally authorized to bear arms, got hold of some good stuff, and enforced their will thereby.

    The 2d Amendment is all that stands between our way of life and a Syrian crackdown in Hometown, USA.
    Seawolf1090, Cephus and Gator 45/70 like this.
  14. TheEconomist

    TheEconomist Creighton Bluejay

    I have always said that China's one child policy and the value they place on having Son's instead of daughter's that there would be a major problem some day.

    Millions upon millions of single horney men with weapons and looking for something to kill

    That = China's Military.
  15. Espada

    Espada Monkey+

    You suppose the Chinese Army has a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy ?
  16. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey+++

    I know we hunt different in western Wa than other places due to terrain but most of the elk hunters I know plan and practice for 500 yard or more shots. This creates a problem for those who would disarm us as like our forefathers in the revolution, fire a shot from distance and disappear. You cant win against those who will not stop fighting.
    Sapper John and Cephus like this.
  17. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    +1 After spending over 11 months looking for IED's, I came to learn that it really dose not take much to go up against a large organized army. Even with all of the technology we had at our disposal, namely FLIR and Drones, I know for a fact that the Iraq war ended as a stalemate for us. The only thing that kept the Local Nations from really coming at us in larger numbers was the amount of cash that we used to "Pay Them Off" with.
  18. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    The more things change, the more they remain the same.

  19. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    The rabid old reptile George Soros has been saying we Americans can expect major violence, riots and heavy crackdowns when the economy finally goes belly-up (due much to his own machinations) - but he does not reckon with the grit of the small-town and rural American. Sure, those in the big cities will be cowled into submission - but when Bubba and Leroy get PO'd and reach for their hunting rifles..... watch out! The Government had better have plenty of bodybags.......
  20. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    Don't assume that the military would be automatically on the side of the administration. The military has sworn to uphold the constitution itself. I think any attempt to clamp down harshly on civil liberties would cause major disagreements within the military itself. You know the oath we all took. The young e1,e2 might not fully understand it but you can bet alot of the NCOs and older officers understand it.
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