Oathkeepers has proof troops refused to confiscate arms

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Tango3, May 20, 2010.

  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    <small>May 17th, 2010</small> BREAKING NEWS! Oath Keepers Proves That There WERE Troops Who Refused to Confiscate Guns During Katrina

    We watched an old lady being tackled in her own kitchen and disarmed.

    In fact, that atrocious event was one of the reasons I started Oath Keepers. But I also knew, from my service as an Army paratrooper, that there are men and women of courage, honor, and integrity in the military who would refuse to obey such orders. My goal with Oath Keepers is simply to increase their numbers and harden their resolve. But when it came to Katrina, we did not have concrete proof that some said no – until now.
    A Stand-Up Example from Katrina Emerges

    [​IMG]This past week, on Friday May 14, 2010, I had the pleasure of meeting and interviewing Staff Sergeant (SSG) Joshua L. May of the Utah National Guard who told me how he, along with the other men in his military intelligence unit, refused to participate in any gun confiscation while deployed to assist during Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

    I finally discovered SSG May and his story only because after a speech I gave in Logan Utah on May 13, 2010, a local resident, Farley Anderson, walked up and told me about what SSG May had done. Upon hearing of it, I knew I just had to talk to him, so I had Mr. Anderson track down SSG May’s number and I called him at 11pm and invited him to breakfast the next morning. Until that night, SSG May hadn’t even heard of Oath Keepers (which is ironic since he is a shining example of an oath keeper). We met for the first time that next morning, Friday, May 14, 2010. During breakfast, SSG May told me his story, and then I asked him if we could go outside and do a video interview in the restaurant parking lot. He agreed that his story needed to be told and the below video is the result.

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    This is the first of four parts to that interview we have now posted on YouTube. This first ten minute segment contains SSG May’s main statement of how, while deployed to assist during Hurricane Katrina, he, along with the majority of the men in his unit, informed their commander that they would not under any circumstances participate in gun confiscation.

    But I urge you to watch the other three parts which contain further details of SSG May’s experience in New Orleans, how he and his unit interacted with armed citizens who were simply defending their property (including a great story of his encounter with a former paratrooper bar owner who let it be known that NO ONE, not the President himself, was getting his guns), more details on how the chain of command reacted to the unit’s refusal, what SSG May thinks of the use of active duty Army during Katrina, about his experiences in Iraq and how they reinforced his commitment to enforcing the Second Amendment, and what he thinks about his oath and the Constitution. SSG May is indeed a shining example of what it means to honor the oath, and it is important to know that he was not alone then, and is not alone today. There are many, many other “SSG May’s” out there. The mission of Oath Keepers is simply to increase their numbers and improve their understanding of the Constitution.

    Tipping the Scales on the Side of the Constitution and the Rights of the People
    As I have said from the day I founded Oath Keepers, we know that some will “just follow orders.” That is clear from the sad history of the human race, and that is also clear from our own history. The internment of Japanese Americans during World War II shows that reality. And in the modern context, the result of LCDR Guy Cunningham’s 1994 Twentynine Palms Combat Arms Survey provided additional sobering evidence, since 26.2% of the Marines polled answered either “agree” or “strongly agree” when asked in the infamous Question 46 if they would fire on American citizens who resisted attempts at gun confiscation. And as already noted, what happened during Katrina shows that some will actually follow even such a clearly unlawful, unconstitutional order. And that is why I started this organization – to do my utmost to keep it from happening again.

    However, I also know beyond a doubt that there are men and women of honor, deep courage, and true devotion to the Constitution in service who would refuse to obey such orders. I know this because I served with some of them. The men I served with in the Airborne infantry would have been as willing to forfeit their lives or liberty by refusing such orders as they were willing to give their lives in combat.

    And I know that there are still, to this day, many people of such honor, courage, and devotion in the military. The number of Bronze and Silver stars, and even Congressional Medals of Honor, being awarded today are a testament to the fact that this nation still has many young lions (and lionesses) of great courage in service.
    [​IMG]Army Spc. Monica Brown, Medic with 82nd Airborne. Awarded Silver Star for courage under fire during ambush in Afghanistan. She saved the lives of wounded soldiers by treating them while under enemy gunfire, by dragging them to safety under enemy fire, and by shielding them with her own body during a mortar attack. They have the courage. They just need the knowledge.

    Enough of them have the courage to do what is right if they know what is right. The only question I have is whether enough of them have the necessary knowledge of the Constitution and of their obligations under the oath to stop another Katrina or worse from happening. Courage without knowledge is insufficient. A brave man or woman without knowledge and understanding of the Constitution can be tricked into becoming a tool of oppression over fellow Americans. Knowledge without courage and integrity is also insufficient (which is why I don’t waste my time with most lawyers and politicians – they have amply demonstrated their lack of either). It takes both courage and knowledge. When a person, such as SSG May, has both, watch out! That one person can and will make a difference far beyond what the cynical conventional wisdom would have you believe is possible, just as SSG May did. He proves the cynics, who contend that all in the military will always just follow orders, wrong.
    I have long said that it is simply a reflection of human nature that in an average military unit, at any time in history, there will likely be some who will just follow orders (sometimes with bloodthirsty gusto), and there will be some who will not follow unlawful orders under any circumstances (provided they understand the orders are unlawful), and then there will be those in the middle who’ll just go whichever way the wind blows. Again, the results of LCDR Cunningham’s survey reflect this. 26.2% said they would fire on fellow Americans. But 12.0 percent said they “had no opinion” about that question (how could someone have no opinion about such a question?). The good news is that 42.3 percent answered that they “strongly disagreed” and 19.3 percent “disagreed.” So, there was a strong split in opinions, with those disagreeing in the majority.

    The whole point of Oath Keepers, its prime mission, is to increase the number of service members who are awake, knowledgeable about the Constitution, and committed to saying “hell no!” and thus tip the scales on the side of those who have both the courage and knowledge to not go along. Those who blow with the wind will then side with right, and any possible psychopaths and blind followers will be significantly outnumbered and will be suppressed.

    And it bears repeating that a man in the ranks like SSG May, a man who has been awakened to the awesome responsibility of his oath and who has become a student of the Constitution, can tip the scales on the side of justice and the Constitution in ways that mere numbers can never quantify. Such a man is a moral and morale force multiplier. SSG May’s story bears this out. He became a teacher and an inspiration to others, and he was the solid rock of resolve that they gathered round and drew strength from when taking their stand. Yes, the majority were in agreement with him (and I’ll bet he certainly helped them see the light) but I think it was his unshakable resolve that helped the others actually take a firm stand. Perhaps if he had not been there, another would have sounded off loudly that the gun confiscation was flat wrong and that he would not do it. Perhaps another would have stepped up to be the spokesman for the others to go tell the commander they would refuse if given that order. But perhaps not. Regardless, one man can make a difference and there can be no doubt that SSG May’s presence helped tip the scales on the side of refusing to obey any orders to confiscate guns. And he made it into a preemptive refusal. He did not wait until the orders were actually given. With him leading the way, the men made it clear in advance that they would not comply.

    SSG May, way back in 2005, was a stellar oath keeper long before Oath Keepers the organization even existed. The oath – and the obligation that goes with it -- is as old as the Constitution itself. We here at Oath Keepers certainly did not invent it. The Founders invented it. And they put that requirement right in the Constitution, in Article VI. We at Oath Keepers merely do our small part in honoring the oath by doing our best, to the utmost extent of our powers (as the motto of my Airborne unit put it) to make sure there are more SSG Mays out there. Just as SSG May was awakened by another National Guardsman who made him realize he did not have a sufficient understanding of the Constitution to adequately keep his oath, we strive to wake up as many current serving as we can to the fundamental necessity of understanding and studying the Constitution if they are to keep their oath to defend it. You can’t defend it if you don’t know it. I firmly believe that it is possible to reach, teach, and inspire enough of the current serving to provide a tipping point on the side of the Constitution and on the side of the rights of the people when future unconstitutional orders come down the chain of command. We can do it.
    And now we have SSG May’s stellar real world example from Katrina itself to show the way for others. In honor of SSG May’s stand, I am nominating him for the Oath Keepers 2010 Current Serving Military of the Year award, and I am nominating his unit for a counterpart award for Unit of the Year for their stand during Katrina. I can’t imagine a better example coming to light between now and our national Oath Keepers Conference in October, so I look forward to presenting both those awards.

    We hear so much bad news nearly every day that it is wonderful to have such a great piece of good news. So, take heart, and remember, with each and every current serving military, police, or emergency personnel you talk to, with each brochure, pocket Constitution, or copy of The 5000 Year Leap handed out, you never know what effect you have, like ripples in a pond going out from one cast pebble. Your one act of outreach, teaching, or inspiration could reach far into the future to a crucial moment in history, into the hearts and minds of key men and women who may just be in place to take a pivotal and historic stand. Now go out and make more SSG Mays!

    For the Republic,
    Stewart Rhodes
    Founder of Oath Keepers

    PS- Seeing as how this story was unknown to the public and untold until I happened to meet SSG May, there well may be other individuals or units, either military or police, who likewise refused to take part in any gun confiscation during Katrina. Please ask around through your contacts, and keep a sharp eye and ear out for any more such accounts. And if you were there, and know of other examples, it is time to speak up and let it be known.

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    1. Thank you so much Joshua, and thank you for your service.
      Comment by GLEN MAINE — May 17, 2010 @ 6:24 am
    2. Not only is it our duty to refuse these orders, it is our duty to engage those that are following unconstitutional orders and if we have to, the use of force is authorized.
      Comment by Jed — May 17, 2010 @ 9:24 am
    3. My heart soars upon this revelation of valor and honor. SSG May, I salute you! Thank you sir.
      Comment by Elias Alias — May 17, 2010 @ 9:53 am
    4. Pro Libertate
      Comment by Anonymous — May 17, 2010 @ 11:29 am
    5. Joshua, thanks for standing for the Constitution! Your honorable actions are to be commended.
      Comment by Wayne Terhune — May 17, 2010 @ 12:02 pm
    6. We may be a minority, we lovers of Liberty and the Constitution, but so were the Founders, and while the battle we face is an uphill, nearly vertical task (against a tyrannical wave of mis-information and ignorance among the general population) – we will not bend, because living under submission is not living, as any Free Man will attest.
      Comment by david — May 17, 2010 @ 10:23 pm
    7. Lindsey Williams: Reality Disk 3. World War Planned After 2 Years. It Will Be Triggered In The Middle East!
      Lindsey Williams: Reality Disk 3. World War Planned After 2 Years. It Will Be Triggered In The Middle East!
      Comment by dolphin — May 18, 2010 @ 1:23 am
    8. Outstanding service Joshua, Thank You for your service.
      Doc Dave O
      Comment by Dave Overturf — May 18, 2010 @ 7:45 am
    9. Stewart,
      Why no mention of Blackwater’s involvement?
      Also, what happens in a case where 5 members of a unit think that they should follow the order and 5 don’t? Should the commander be shot on the spot and the potential gun-confiscators summarily executed? Or should the 5 who refuse be shot for refusing to follow orders?
      Do police have the right to take guns away from people during a riot? How about a domestic disturbance? How about if there’s somebody pointing it at you while waving an American flag?
      Thank your for your consideration.
      Comment by William W. Wexler — May 18, 2010 @ 10:20 am
    10. In a declared emergency such as Katrina, an Oathkeeper could justify disarming a known felon or a person in the act of, or committing, a felony. Otherwise, I can think of no legitimate justification for disarming any fellow citizen. I salute SSG May.
      Comment by Blaine Nay — May 18, 2010 @ 11:45 am
    11. Staff Sergeant (SSG) Joshua L. May,
      I appreciate your stand to keep your oath of enlistment to defend the Constitution. It is the same oath your commanders and the commander in chief took. I hold all public servants to the same standard.
      LTC Charles Jones
      USA (Retired)
      Comment by charles jones — May 18, 2010 @ 12:39 pm
    12. Lindsey Williams – Tragedy
      Lindsey Williams discusses his recent conversation with his elite oil executive contact. I believe this to be the best piece of work Lindsey has ever produced. Lindsey is truly a man of God and is pouring his heart out for America to repent and wake up. This is America’s final warning. Wake up or you and your children will be slaves to the elite of the world.
      Lindsey Williams: Tragedy Disk 1. The Illuminati’s Plan For The Next 2 Years!
      Comment by dolphin — May 18, 2010 @ 4:12 pm
    13. Lindsey Williams: Hope
      Pastor Williams go through the monetary and economic problems that will plague the world in the coming 2 years. Fiat currencies, in particular the USD, will be worthless. Gold and silver will return as monetary metals. They will return as money when fiat currencies collapse. The world will abandon US treasuries and the USD within 2 years. Hyper-inflation will kick in.
      Lindsey Williams: Hope Disk 2. Within 2 Years The Dollar Will Be Worthless. Gold And Silver Are The Currencies Of The Elite!
      Comment by dolphin — May 18, 2010 @ 5:39 pm
    14. If everyone runs out and buys all the gold they can at twice the price that it’s worth, or 5 times the price that it’s worth, who stands to benefit?
      Here’s a question. If owning gold is such a good deal, why would anyone want to go through all the expense of selling it?
      Comment by William W. Wexler — May 18, 2010 @ 7:22 pm
    15. Thank you to all our military, and I pray for their safety… I sure hope more military members realize what this administration is up to and stands against it!
      Comment by Rob — May 18, 2010 @ 9:12 pm
    16. Wexler, the answer to your original question is found in the Oath of Enlistment:
      “I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same…”
      The very first part of that oath is to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
      If a soldier sees a member of the military violating the Constitution, their responsibility is to stop that. By any means necessary. Hopefully it will stop with “You are about to violate the 2nd Amendment. This is an illegal order, and you are required to disobey illegal orders.”
      Comment by Anonymous — May 18, 2010 @ 11:04 pm
    17. I did not realize how stiff with worry and trepidation I was until I felt some of the angst start to melt while reading this article. The Oath Keepers give me hope for my children’s safety and freedom. I bless all of you and promise any aid and comfort I could render to the true patriots of this nation. I will pray for all of you as I pray for the safety and renewal of our country’s spirit and promise.
      Comment by justducke — May 19, 2010 @ 6:47 am
    18. Anonymous…
      What if the subject of the disarming has a truckload of AK-47s and is selling them with boxes of ammo for 5$ each? What if the subject of disarming has a truckload of weaponized anthrax and with a big fan on top of it and is driving through Times Square?
      What if the subject of disarming is just minding their own business in the back of a Jeep with quad fifties? Or maybe just hovering over your unit with their own fleet of Apache helicopters? Or perhaps driving into a crowd with a truckload of fertilizer or a dirty bomb or a nuke?
      See, that’s the problem with you 2nd Amendment types and with the premise of the Oathkeepers. You claim to defend a right that can’t be defined and hasn’t been defined.
      Or has it? It’s against the law to stockpile ammunition and weapons. It’s against the law to own a nuclear submarine. It’s against the law to do most of the stuff I listed above; however, the 2nd Amendment people don’t know what the law is and don’t really care. You see things that are black and white. However, this is NOT a black and white issue, it’s got plenty of gray area.
      Before you make a decision to defy an order in the heat of conflict and risk getting shot I think it might be wise to read up on the copious amount of legal wrangling that has happened over the years regarding the 2nd Amendment. The Founders had a different vision than most of the 2nd Amendment people do because they lived in an age of muzzle loaders and swords. They also lived in an age where the US did not have a standing army so militias were necessary for public safety. Things have changed, in case you didn’t notice.
      Comment by William W. Wexler — May 19, 2010 @ 6:57 am
    19. Mr Wexler,
      Sir you are correct in the statement LEAL WRANGLING, and yes our forfathers did live in a diffrent time, it was a time of few lawyers and many Patriots,Now sad as it may be we have tomany lawyers and few patriots, by your words sir Iassume you are the former.
      Comment by Michael Hutcheson — May 19, 2010 @ 7:58 am
    20. Wexler, I don’t play “What if” games. Bottom line- is it a legally registered firearm? Is the owner actively threatening someone (besides in self-defense, which is the point)?
      As long as they’ve filled out the proper forms and they’re not using it to threaten innocents, the military has no place getting involved. Someone with a Class III firearms license could quite easily be hanging out in their jeep with a quad .50 on the back and be good to go.
      Now, here’s the REALLY amazing thing that’ll blow your mind- I’m one of those tree-hugging, separation of church and state, science-believing, godless commie-hippie-socio-facist libruls that the “2nd Amendment types” hate and fear so much. But if I have to risk getting shot “in the heat of conflict” (in the United States?!) because I refuse to follow an illegal order, then that is what the oath I swore on the day I enlisted requires of me.
      Every year we have to train soldiers on what constitutes an illegal order, and every year I use Katrina as a perfect example for them. Doesn’t matter what political party, religion or ethnicity someone is, or if they feel the need to join something like Oath Keepers or not, if they’re given an order that violates the Constitution or the Laws of War, it’s a soldier’s duty to refuse it.
      Because they swore an oath.
      Comment by Anonymous — May 19, 2010 @ 8:37 am
    21. Comment by Michael Hutcheson – what Jon Stewart said.
      Anonymous… You don’t play what if games but the problem is that during Katrina and probably the next situation like it you are going to have to play some kind of game such as making a decision as to whether or not the person waving the gun at you believes they’re doing it in self defense or for some other purpose.
      Regarding the use of weapons as “threatening”… the people who carry guns to political rallies and marches are using firearms in just that manner; the implication is that they will use them to obtain their political goals. The “Patriot” movement is no different from the Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) or the Black Panthers or the Klan. Showing firepower is the last resort of people who are desperate to make a point.
      I hope you’re teaching this to whomever takes life and death lessons from you.
      Comment by William W. Wexler — May 19, 2010 @ 9:27 am
    22. To Wexler,
      You said:
      Regarding the use of weapons as “threatening”… the people who carry guns to political rallies.
      You must be talking about those guys that showed up in washington wearing holstered guns on their sides or slung on their back yeah, those guns were empty, on safe and kept in the most non threatening manner possible. That’s how the military carries their weapons when theres no threat. A gun is only threatening when its load with a full magazine, off safe and pointed at your face. This site is about the Constitution and the oath to support and defend the Constitution against all ENEMIES foreign and DOMESTIC. However, I’m quite sure you twist this and anything else read so that it makes you feel better about yourself.
      Comment by Frey.12 — May 19, 2010 @ 7:42 pm
    23. Detroit Cops Are Trying to “Cover-Up” Child’s Killing
      Aiyana Jones Police Raid Fallout: Lawyer Says Detroit Cops Are Trying to "Cover-Up" Child's Killing - Crimesider - CBS News
      Comment by dolphin — May 19, 2010 @ 8:07 pm
    24. Hey, Frey,
      If you had any guts about your political beliefs, why would you need to be carrying weapons to rallies?
      Nobody knows if you have a loaded weapon or an empty one. No one knows if you’re high on crack. No one knows anything except that you have the potential to create death.
      Seems like the ultimate cowardice to me.
      Comment by William W. Wexler — May 19, 2010 @ 8:36 pm
    25. PS to Frey…
      When I lived in Texas I bought guns and took training from one of the most wingnutty NRA people I’ve ever met.
      He gave me this advice, and I’m passing it on to you for FREE. Never carry an empty gun. If you’ve got a gun, it should be loaded, it should be ready to use, and you should know how to use it.
      Comment by William W. Wexler — May 19, 2010 @ 8:39 pm
    26. “In a declared emergency such as Katrina, an Oathkeeper could justify disarming a known felon or a person in the act of, or committing, a felony. Otherwise, I can think of no legitimate justification for disarming any fellow citizen. I salute SSG May.”
      A “known felon” should not even legally have a weapon. Thus, disarming them is not a violation of the Constitution. Furthermore, if you are caught in the commission of a felony, law enforcement will disarm you. I find your examples to be unfounded in truth or knowledge.
      Comment by Patrick M. Fahey — May 20, 2010 @ 12:54 am
    27. Now US needs guys like Josua.
      who respect the citizens, truly love their country.
      not obeying banks & military industrial complex
      controlled gov’t.
      Comment by Jeremy — May 20, 2010 @ 4:58 am
    28. Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Police – 11 stitches
      YouTube - Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches
      Comment by dolphin — May 20, 2010 @ 8:08 am
    29. Awesome job Sgt May. As an active O-4 and fellow combat veteran I am proud we still have “citizen soldiers” who haven’t forgotten what we fight for. Thanks for your courage and service.
      Comment by anonymous — May 20, 2010 @ 8:20 am
    30. The Psychology Behind Mass Subservience to Tyranny
      The exact same mechanisms that Hitler used
      are at work here in The United States.
      The German people were lured into WWII not because they were brave, but because they were cowards who wanted to be seen as brave, and found that shooting long range weapons at people they could not see took less courage than standing up to Hitler.
      Sent into battle by a false image of courage, the Germans were dependent on their wonder-weapons. When the wonder-weapons stopped working, the Germans lost the war.
      The American people imagine themselves to be brave. They see themselves as the heroic Americans depicted by Western movies, the descendants of the fierce patriot warriors who had tamed the frontier and defeated the might of the British Empire.
      But in truth, by the dawn of the third millennium, the American people have become civilized and tamed, culturally obsessed with fine details in both science and society. Their self-image of bravery is both salve and slavery. Americans are required to behave as if they are brave, even when they are not. The American people assume they are safe. They live in a Republic, after all, with strict laws regarding what the government can, and more importantly, cannot do. Their leader is a devoutly religious man.
      The reality is that the American people, as individuals, have lost their courage. The government prefers it that way, as a fearful people are easier to rule than a courageous one. But Americans don’t wish to lose their self-image of courage. So, when confronted with a situation demanding courage to challenge a government gone wrong, the American people simply pretend that the situation does not exist. Cherished illusions supercede hard reality.
      Comment by dolphin — May 20, 2010 @ 1:46 pm
    31. We Americans are now engaged in a New Civil war, testing whether this nation, conceived and dedicated as we are, will endure.
      The New American Civil War
      Comment by dolphin — May 20, 2010 @ 3:43 pm
  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    I got a kick out of the comments of anonomous #18 where he stated there were laws regarding the numbers of firearms and or ammo you could own. With rare exception of some municipalities laws (and i feel they could be successfully challenged in a higher court), that comment is false and only displays what the media and the anti gunners believe.
  3. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    The Oathkeepers.. wow..where to start.
    I joined up, for obvious reasons, most of which were politically centered. Most people, I dare say, joined up for similar reasons. We all saw what was going on, what was coming and didn't want be sitting on our hands while it all went down.

    I joined.. joined discussions.. voiced my opinion, posted a view political thoughts and I was BANNED from the NY Oathkeepers because I spoke my mind and they didn't like my political position. I was BANNED by an organization which has, at it's core, the desire to uphold the Constitution.. but DAMNED if you try to live by the constitution on their site.. There is no freedom of speech with them. The members of the organization may well be fine, upstanding men and women, but the organization, as far as I'm concerned, can kiss my ass.
  4. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    WowDooood you must be "exteeeeeme!" lol
  5. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Apparently quite a bit more than they wanted to hear about.. and I only really posted 2 personal thoughts. The whole hub-bub happened when they issued a request asking that people not post politically based items and I refused to comply and asked them why. It took nearly a week to get an answer and it was a weak answer too. Basically they said "we are targeting LEO and Military and Military are not allowed to take political stances".. not verbatim, but close enough.

    Now, I understood that Military personnel are restricted in some sense but the whole point is upholding the constitution and quite frankly, if you're going to join an org like that.. chances are you're taking a risk anyway. I suppose I hoped to be part of an organization that walked the walked instead of talked a lot of talk.

    So to me, they are superficial at a top level view. I think the members, individually, have a better perspective but the org is holding them back. So screw the org to hell.. they capitulated.. screw 'em.
  6. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I tend to get all "self righteousy" where the second is challenged by the ignorant and afraid.
    Unfortunately I figured I added my name willingly to yet another easily collectible list with them.They may not ever willingly release membership lists; but who knows what folks will do when pressured. or its just plain out hacked/stolen...And how good some kangaroo trials would look to the liberals: " Vote for us again See we are taking care of these nutter patriot organizations that stand in the way of progress!"
  7. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I noticed that as well. What can you expect for a country of "citizens" that don't know what their rights are? The only expectation I have is to loose those rights.

    I am not an oathkeeper (it costs money), but I will keep my oath. I know the constitution.
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