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Obama to deny 2nd Amendment right based Soc. Sec claims

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by CATO, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    I don't think any of us want someone having a gun if they're a nutjob; what worries me, however, are the liberal jerks with an axe-to-grind doing the labeling or exactly who lacks the mental capacity.
    Obama pushes to extend gun background checks to Social Security - LA Times

    Seeking tighter controls over firearm purchases, the Obama administration is pushing to ban Social Security beneficiaries from owning guns if they lack the mental capacity to manage their own affairs, a move that could affect millions whose monthly disability payments are handled by others.

    The push is intended to bring the Social Security Administration in line with laws regulating who gets reported to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, which is used to prevent gun sales to felons, drug addicts, immigrants in the country illegally and others.

    A potentially large group within Social Security are people who, in the language of federal gun laws, are unable to manage their own affairs due to "marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease."

    There is no simple way to identify that group, but a strategy used by the Department of Veterans Affairs since the creation of the background check system is reporting anyone who has been declared incompetent to manage pension or disability payments and assigned a fiduciary.

    If Social Security, which has never participated in the background check system, uses the same standard as the VA, millions of its beneficiaries would be affected. About 4.2 million adults receive monthly benefits that are managed by "representative payees."

    The move is part of a concerted effort by the Obama administration after the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Conn., to strengthen gun control, including by plugging holes in the background check system.

    But critics — including gun rights activists, mental health experts and advocates for the disabled — say that expanding the list of prohibited gun owners based on financial competence is wrongheaded.

    Though such a ban would keep at least some people who pose a danger to themselves or others from owning guns, the strategy undoubtedly would also include numerous people who may just have a bad memory or difficulty balancing a checkbook, the critics argue.

    "Someone can be incapable of managing their funds but not be dangerous, violent or unsafe," said Dr. Marc Rosen, a Yale psychiatrist who has studied how veterans with mental health problems manage their money. "They are very different determinations."

    Steven Overman, a 30-year-old former Marine who lives in Virginia, said his case demonstrates the flaws of judging gun safety through financial competence.

    After his Humvee hit a roadside bomb in Iraq in 2007, he was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and a brain injury that weakened his memory and cognitive ability.

    The VA eventually deemed him 100% disabled and after reviewing his case in 2012 declared him incompetent, making his wife his fiduciary.

    The system's databases contain more than 13 million records, which include the names of felons, immigrants in the U.S. illegally, fugitives, dishonorably discharged service members, drug addicts and domestic abusers.

    State agencies, local police and federal agencies are required to enter names into the databases, but the system has been hampered by loopholes and inconsistent reporting since its launch.

    The shortcomings became clear in the wake of the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting, in which Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people. Cho had been declared mentally ill by a court and ordered to undergo outpatient treatment, but at the time the law did not require that he be added to the databases.

    Congress expanded the reporting requirements, but Social Security determined it was not required to submit records, according to LaVenia LaVelle, an agency spokeswoman.

    Hillary Clinton calls for action on gun control after Charleston shootings

    Told about the initiative, the NRA issued a statement from its chief lobbyist, Chris W. Cox, saying: "If the Obama administration attempts to deny millions of law-abiding citizens their constitutional rights by executive fiat, the NRA stands ready to pursue all available avenues to stop them in their tracks."

    Gun rights advocates are unlikely to be the only opponents.

    Ari Ne'eman, a member of the National Council on Disability, said the independent federal agency would oppose any policy that used assignment of a representative payee as a basis to take any fundamental right from people with disabilities.

    "The rep payee is an extraordinarily broad brush," he said.

    Since 2008, VA beneficiaries have been able to get off the list by filing an appeal and demonstrating that they pose no danger to themselves or others.

    But as of April, just nine of 298 appeals have been granted, according to data provided by the VA. Thirteen others were pending, and 44 were withdrawn after the VA overturned its determination of financial incompetence.

    Overman is one of the few who decided to appeal.

    He is irritable and antisocial, he said, but not dangerous. "I've never been suicidal," he said. "To me that solves nothing."

    More than a year and a half after Overman filed his challenge, the VA lifted its incompetence ruling, allowing his removal from the background check system before the VA ever had to determine whether he should be trusted with a gun.

    Overman, who hasn't worked since leaving the military, said he and a friend are now thinking of opening a gunsmith business.
    Yard Dart, stg58 and Ganado like this.
  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

  3. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey Site Supporter+

    Fitzgerald said residents of the area need to be cautious.

    "Use your sixth sense," he said. "If something doesn't feel right, run to a nearby store or something."

    Yeah, that will keep you safe...
  4. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    I have his view point tully mars. As a female I have traveled alone in a lot of remote locations and I always pay attention to my sixth sense and I am prepared as well but if something g feels off to me I back pedal quick.

    In this situation I have to ask myself why the went into the alley. I would have taken the bullet befor walking into that alley
  5. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+ Founding Member

    Barry has about 18 months left and he may be more of a threat to the Constitution on the way out.
    He will never run for an election again so he will go at the things he "thinks" needs fixing with no restraint.
    He will commute and pardon offenders of all sorts.
    The second amendment has always been a target.
    The presidential executive order will be used who knows how much damage he will do with that one.

    He will retire and live on the taxpayers dime write books for millions and go on the speaking circuit for millions and likely create a foundation like the Clinton's cashing in on millions there and by the way his wife will cash in on the book and speaking circuit as well.

    So even after he can't issue executive orders he will be rabble-rousing for his version of "justice" in the world.
    Tully Mars likes this.
  6. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I got jumped by three guys INSIDE a store. The store keep kept saying "take it outside! Take it outside!!" And yet I know for a fact he had a baseball bat a pistol and a shotgun under that counter. He didn't help in any way.
  7. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey Site Supporter+

    Paying attention is great and everyone should. Retreating to a "public place" is fine too, but being armed and staying the heck out a "da hood" is even better. The quote was from the assistant CoP I believe. God forbid they "allow" the people to arm themselves for protection.
    They most likely went into the alley because sheep are easily intimidated..
    Yard Dart, Ganado and Brokor like this.
  8. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Exactly. Like people actually have a "sixth sense" to begin with. Let's not carry guns to defend ourselves. All the good people are disarmed and the ones carrying guns are criminals and police. These days, they are one and the same. INSANITY.
    BlueDuck and Tully Mars like this.
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