Obvious Differences Between Mohammad and Jesus

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by tacmotusn, Aug 25, 2017.


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  1. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    Probably neither in most cases.
    I guess that would depend on whether or not they also hold religious beliefs, and how their doctrine deals with that. You are trying to paint with too wide of a brush. My concern in this instance was answering a specific question posed by @arleigh
     
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  2. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I have had acquaintances that lived in Muslim occupied countries , and according to them, Muslim babies are neglected in the streets ,and those in homes can have no confidence in anything a parent or adult can say.
    All they have, is living in fear for what ever rule they make up next and then except them selves for their age or some goofy other reason .
    Muslim claim to have a social care for one another, but the have no care for any one else..
    Christians have been reaching out into the world extending help to their extension of love is the only factor used in encouraging others to take an interest in Christ , NO one is pressured into believing and no one is shunned for leaving either.
    Christians have been reaching out to every nation they can no strings attached ,not for selfish greed but to heal their sick and helping them to prosper and build schools .
    Many of the major schools here in the US were started by Christians BTW even though now days they have strayed away .
     
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  3. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Christianity has a rich history of righteous lying and pious fraud , regardless of what the scriptures may proscribe...It probably matters little what sacred texts, deities, and prophets approve of, or disapprove of...the evidence seems to indicate that theists of each of the different Abrahamic faiths lie at times, just that each faction believes that the other factions lie more, and worse than they themselves do. Pious fraud - RationalWiki Pious fraud - Wikipedia Crimes of Christianity: Pious Frauds

    The answer is possibly that it makes them (LEOs)....'diabolical'. Whether their deceit or dissembling is righteous or unrighteous may come down to motivation and the outcomes that are the fruit of it.
     
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  4. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker


    I have had acquaintances that lived in Muslim occupied countries , and according to them, Muslim babies are neglected in the streets ,and those in homes can have no confidence in anything a parent or adult can say.

    Anecdotally I can say the same think of some Christians in the US... it is a matter of how well someone lives their religious tenants and not the tenants of the religion themselves...


    JMO (just my opinion...)
     
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  5. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Most of the churches I have frequented in the past 66 years, at pretty serious about dealing with lies .
    they are not frowned on , they are condemned.
     
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  6. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Having work anti drug programs in the past I would say that while the churches may be serious someone obviously doesn't care what the churches say.... This includes clergy members who have been busted, deacons, board members etc... This is just my anecdotal experience not necessarily a generalization...
     
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  7. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    9th commandment is the main verse indicating lying is a sin. WE ARE ALL FLAWED, AND WE ARE ALL SINNERS. However, if you believe in God's holy trinity (the father, the son, and the holy ghost), and ask for forgiveness, all will be forgiven by God.
    .
    as for all these churches condemning lying sinners, the good book says, "Judge not lest ye be judged." They will be judge by God when they stand before their maker.
     
  8. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    On Christianity and it's history... MEN twisted things considerably... they sought power and control and abused their position...

    this is not something new... been going on since the beginning... and is still going on... one way or another...

    So while posts that claim certain things are sorta true... far too often the full truth of the matter is NOT expressed...

    cause it don't fit the agenda...

    Churches and cathedrals, with their biblically based art, became “the Bible of the poor and illiterate Christians.” For it was through the mosaics, frescoes, stained-glass windows, and sculptures that most Christian laymen learned about the content of the Bible. Most could not read Latin, but those who could also were not permitted to read the Bible for themselves, even if one were available. In 1229 the Synod of Toulouse (France), in response to two reform-minded groups (the Cathari and Waldensians), outlawed Bible reading for the laity. Martin Luther, for instance, reportedly had not seen a Bible until he was a student at the University of Erfurt. Later he broke this three-hundred-year-old ban on Bible reading when he translated the New Testament into German in 1522. A few years later he also translated the Old Testament.

    Schmidt, Alvin J.. How Christianity Changed the World (p. 295). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.


    I can point out many such examples.... history is full of em... MEN changed things to suite their desires...

    and in some odd cases women did too... yet many try to blame GOD or Jesus for this kinda thing...

    as too Islam... what I have read very strongly supports the posted images...
     
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  9. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    Well from what i have personally seen from my not so minor world travels on Uncle Sam's dime is that People are people everywhere and mostly just want to get along safely from day to day. They don't expect much out of life and most can endure a lot of negative crap and are happy just to be left alone to eke out a sustaining life for themselves and their loved ones. Religion is not a major noticeable part of their life except in a State Theocracy. Islam is one of the biggest of these and it is NOT a tolerant religion for unbelievers or unfaithful. Most of these do not take kindly to converts to other religions or blasphemers or ridiculers. Christianity appears to be the #2 religion (in it's various secular forms, - Catholic, Mormon, Protestants) world wide whether in a theocracy or not. In this day an age and for centuries (minor exception, and a shameful one, would be the British/Irish religious conflict), Christianity has not been spread in a violent or forceful manner, and the missionaries spreading the word of the Bible worldwide have done this on no government dime or ulterior motive. This in my mind raises it high above other religions. Additionally it is quite tolerant of other religions, and unbelievers, and the unfaithful.
     
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  10. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    Oh and there is this...

    The Apostle Paul predicted to Timothy, his co-worker, that “the time will come when men [within the church] will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths” (2 Timothy 4:3–4). Christians, he said, would need to “fight the good fight of the faith” (1 Timothy 6:12). Paul was right. False teachers soon entered the church, espousing heretical doctrines that were disseminated in a variety of writings. Thus, a tradition of polemical writing was born—disputations and refutations of religious and often controversial principle and practice.

    Schmidt, Alvin J.. How Christianity Changed the World (pp. 346-347). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.
     
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  11. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    For this reason ,I prefer the tutelage of Jesus and the Holy /spirit , than that of any man .
    God does not alter His message.
    Men do.
     
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  12. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker



    Lets see...

    1095 The Catholic church under pope Urban II determined that in addition a "Just war' there was also a Bellum Sacrum a legitimate "Holy War"

    All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested.
    (Fulcher of Chartes)

    • The Arian Controversy ( killing of Arians and destruction of texts... ( modern day Jehovah witnesses...)
    • The Crusades
    • Jews were blamed for the crucifixion of Jesus and were targets of Christian persecution
    • The Spanish Inquisition...
    • Forced Conversion of non Christians
    • Anti Muslim attacks in the Central African republic by Christian Anti-Balaka (Christian groups)
    • in India The National Liberation front of Tripura is killing non Christians to set up a Christian state
    • National Socialist Council of Nagaland in India and Burma supports setting up a Christian only government and country...

    There are many more specifics...

    I understand what you are trying to say but generalization of any religion is extremely difficult to prove....
     
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  13. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Is there any reason to believe any 'sacred' message to be true....if the messages of man are indistinguishable from 'god's....particularly if the god is the creation of man, rather than the other way around. Ancient texts, and the translations of same seem to be a very inefficient and ineffective way of communicating for an Omni god.....Who were the authors of the Synoptic Gospels? Who knows? Church tradition, attributes them to Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John.....but nobody actually knows.
     
  14. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    In the very 1st post that started this thread I said this, "Dispute it if you will in Todays World, not the World that was 500-1600 years ago." I said that because followers of Mohammad and Islam are doing the same things today that they did 500-1600 years ago. Christianity once was a theocracy in many places, and now not hardly anywhere, and has evolved in many other ways as well. No evolution to modern day times for Islam, at least not in it's theocracy forms. That was my point. Not ancient history.
     
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  15. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker



    • Anti Muslim attacks in the Central African republic by Christian Anti-Balaka (Christian groups)
    • in India The National Liberation front of Tripura is killing non Christians to set up a Christian state
    • National Socialist Council of Nagaland in India and Burma supports setting up a Christian only government and country...

    A troll demanded a Muslim man show examples of 'Christian terrorists.' He delivered.
     
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  16. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    For a moment I started to get upset, because I thought your quote was a direct attack on me, with you calling me a troll. My mistake. Once I found out it was the link, I went there and read what was offered. I would counter that many of the examples offered by they Mooselimb have been openly and loudly renounced, condemning the perps as the lowest, craziest, scum of the earth. This condemnation came from Christians as well as many others in USA and western countries. Additionally USA led troops under UN and USA itself have taken on Christian led fighters accused of genocide against Muslims in the Croatian/Serbian areas of Europe. American blood was shed for Muslims.
     
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  17. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Probably should have stayed out of that one.
     
  18. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Didn't mean to upset you or call anyone a troll....

    I was just pointing out that generalization is flawed... I could of added the KKK, the Oklahoma bomber and others however I thought racism and politics would muddy the waters further...
     
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  19. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    Does anyone here think KKK members are really Christians? How about Antifa? Black Lives Matter? Our Military has Members of all religious persuasions, and of late Christians in Military specially chaplains have been under attack to do things they feel their religious training would not approve of. So how can anyone say the US military is "Christian". You might muddy the waters for some who are easily led astray but I think you need a much stronger argumental point to convince me.
     
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  20. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Who gets to define a Christian or Muslim into existence, or define same out of existence? Your question teeters on the edge of falling into the 'No true Scotsman' fallacy No True Scotsman - RationalWiki Would you offer Muslims the same kind of intellectual generosity as is being expected in suggesting that KKK members are not really Christians?....the same kind of question could be reframed as "Does anyone here think ISIS members are really Muslims? As for KKK, and ISIS members...some really are genuinely devout believers of their respective Christians / Muslim faiths.....some are not.

    See my comments above....Antifa and BLM probably includes a range of religious and non religious supporters....there is nothing inimical in what one's religion is, or whether one has any religious commitment at all, when opposing fascism. It's as like that both Antifa and BLM include members who really are Christians, Muslims, and authentic members of a range of other faiths; including folk who aren't aligned with any faith confession at all (aka atheists, 'nones', secularists, (and folk who are 'spiritual, but not religious' - whatever that may mean)).

    That wasn't a point that Witch Doctor was arguing: However, it can't be denied that Christianity does enjoy a privileged position within the US military, and vigorously defends and attempts to expand that position of pre-eminence, often at the expense of other faiths, and service personnel with no faith affiliation at all.
    Religious discrimination in the military | Secular Coalition for America
    The Trump effect is inspiring radical Christians in the U.S. military
    Military Religious Freedom Foundation About
    https://au.org/files/pdf_documents/2014-12-9-Debunking-ClearPresentDanger.pdf

    Perhaps Witch Doctor's intent wasn't to convince you specifically, but to point out the inconsistencies and logically fallacies that undermine your own thesis. Witch Doctor's audience is far wider than just yourself, tac. The comparison table featured in the OP comparison table is poisoned by multiple instances of logically fallacious reasoning. It's fair enough to draw attention to them, and allow individuals to evaluate the soundness of the arguments that you have presented. I think @Witch Doctor 01 has been very conservative with his examples, and has at least made an attempt at being intellectually honest about it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
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