Oh CRAP!!!

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by fireplaceguy, Mar 29, 2010.


  1. fireplaceguy

    fireplaceguy Monkey+

    (Live on Fox/Greta Van Susteren) The Lt. Gov. of SC is calling for a Constitutional Convention to repeal Obamacare. This is VERY dangerous, as once the convention is called, EVERYTHING is on the table.

    2nd Amendment? Up for grabs! Freedom of speech? Religion? 4th Amendment? 5th Amendment? There's NO provision to limit the scope of a convention, so anything and everything is up for grabs once a convention is underway.

    This cannot be risked.
     
  2. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    That's lunacy.. you don't call for a ConCon to repeal a law like this. Sounds suspicious to me.. as in "Ulterior Motives" as you so stated. .
     
  3. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    It just keep getting better doesn't it?
    IF they'd just take stock of the situation, they'd know they can change things, given time.....
     
  4. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    Yep, definitely a "Two-edged Sword" that could be The Final Cut to bring this nation to it's knees. The ConCon might be viable once we take away the Liberal's Super Majority in Congress, but NOT before! Far too dangerous now, with pelosi and reid still holding the reins! [own2]

    That thrice-danged shrill haridan and Wicked Witch of the Westwing would really get a thrill running up both scrawny chicken legs if she thought she could hack&whack at the Constitution with total abandon! She would truly get her fondest wish granted........
     
  5. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!


    I don't see anyone on the other side of the isle being trustworthy either.

    I think it was Melbo who called it a "two headed worm".

    The two major parties take turns pushing us into a socialist state. While the libs reign, the so-called "civil libertarians" look the other way as the constitution is shredded.

    When the Republicans reign, the so-called conservatives look the other way while such a travesty as The PATRIOT Act is made into law.

    Nothing will change until folks at the grass roots start electing citizens - that is unconnected "average joes", next door neighbors to congress.
    These guys can then stall the current march over the cliff, move into the senate - ESTABLISH TERM AND PAY LIMITS and eventually the White House. Let's hope they don't get corrupted in the process.
     
  6. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Ok, maybe I am missing something here. I think that what they are requesting is a Constitutional Convention to add an amendment to the constitution to allow states the right to nullify acts from the Federal Gov't. This in no way affects individual rights ensured by the Bill of Rights. It's not just SC asking for this. There is movement all over other states to do the same thing. There is a battle right now between the Feds and States (mostly conservative). With states adding more laws to the books to reinforce their power within a state. Another good example is the recent Montana gun law. It's all about the interstate commerce clause.

    I think giving more power to the states is a step in the right direction. The Bill of Rights still ensures individual rights. States would have a bit more authority to opt out of BS that their constituents don't like. I applaud any politician trying to do what the people ask for.

    Is there something I am missing in between the lines or this just paranoia becasue the thought of a Constituional Convention sounds scary?
     
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I think, but do not know, that if a full blown ConCon is convened, all articles are open for scrutiny. I think, but do not know, that amendments can be addressed individually IF the Congress limits the discussions beforehand. There has to be something akin to that, or all the amendments (including the BOR) would not have been adopted, or several repealed.

    The states are headed down the right path to rein in the Feds usurpation of state's rights. That said, there is ample precedent that takes away some of the state prerogatives (think the interstate highway system as an example.) Remember, the precedent for reduction of state's rights was set when the south lost the war. The current 14 states that (presently) seek to nullify zerocare have started the ball rolling toward reversing that trend.

    Where I get aggravated is when the feds hold the states hostage by requiring that the states find a way to finance something the feds want, or threaten to withhold federal funding if the states don't do something the feds want. It then becomes a question of whether things are done with federal or state money, whether the citizens want it or not. Either way, the tap in individual income goes up.
     
  8. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    A ConCon comes from Article V.

    "The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."

    According to article V, there needs to be 2/3 of both houses to agree to a ConCon. Historically there have been about multiple threats of Constitutional Convention. Never has one actually been used to change/ add to an amendment. More than likely, this is just political jockeying. All the ConCons threatened in the past were to simply look at single issues and not all encompassing as feared.

    (This is the jist of what I typed earlier before Conagher unintentionally censored me [fixedthanks][all this censorship, he must be "da man"])

    I think we can rest easy here. [winkthumb]

    Good lord.... I am having flashbacks to hours of Constitutional Issues in college. You're killing me.


     
  9. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I believe there are two types.
    1. limited
    discuss specific articles that need to be addressed or are being considered for discussion.
    2. unlimited
    this is basically the scary one where the entire constitution is under the scope.
     
  10. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Whew. Thanks for that, a bit more settled feeling comes. So don't be dying just yet, we may yet need your interpretations and logic. (Even if neither are used by the congress critters.)
     
  11. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Not being a scholar of any means....
    ( Hey I managed to get my diploma and a few hours in college)
    I don't know much about the parlimentary procedures or constitutional law, at all...
    But, I do know something has to be done, to limit the expansion and even 'roll-back" some of the most recent laws and legislation enacted by the elite types.
    What we need ( in my opinion only) is a government run by both the blue collar and white collar workers, not by "resident politicians."
    Someone recently sent me an email stating that "he" is a liberal-progressive"...I have NO idea what the heck that even means!
    I always thought a liberal was a guy that used the whole bottle of sunscreen lotion at one time on his day at the beach...?
    I also thought that a conservative was another guy, same beach, that only used what was necessary...?
    The rest is just so much political rhetoric to me.
    (I represent the un-educated class!)
    I know this country is heading in a strange and different direction than I had even thought possible.....Be it socialism, or whatever, it's not a good thing in my estimation....( see un-educated here!) But it scares me to see we are being taxed into submission....and the "hit's just keep on a comin'..."
    IF the states do nothing, where does that leave us? At the mercy of those that are above the laws of OUR country, and consider themselves to be absolved of any wrondoings, and such laws that applies only to the "peon's".
    Like NOT paying those stupid taxes....!
    Scary.....
     
  12. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I just finished reading Mathew Brackens final installment in the "Enemies" trilogy, "Foriegn Enemies and Traitors". In it the States call for a Con-Con to promote 10th amendment challenges to the Liberal Govs un-constitutional mandates. The libs soon realize that they can (and they do) hijack it. They take control and end up repealing the second amendment and passing other "fixes" to the Constitution.
    Scary scenario.
     
  13. fireplaceguy

    fireplaceguy Monkey+

    Yep. That's the way it works, according to what I read as well. Unfortunately, I read it so long ago I can't remember what book it's in or I'd cite it here. (Knowing me, it was likely something Second Amendment related.)

    And the Republicans can't be trusted one bit. That's why my reaction was "Oh, CRAP!"
     
  14. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Nice choice of ads for guests veiwing this thread! I had to preserve this.
    gunban.JPG
     
  15. Conagher

    Conagher Dark Custom Rider Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    A ConCon comes from Article V.

    "The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."

    According to the above info,

    It says that 2/3's of both houses shall deem it necessary to propose Amendments. So where in the hell does a Lt Gov from SC think he/she has the power to call for a ConCon to repeal ObongoCare? It doesn't give them any power, so they should just keep their frakking mouth shut!!
     
  16. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Moderator Moderator Founding Member

    See the part you have in red.



    so 2/3's of both house OR when 2/3's of the states call for a convention. What the Lt. Gov is trying to do is get the 2/3's of the states to call for the convention, I doubt it will happen.

    That is my understanding anyway.
     
  17. Conagher

    Conagher Dark Custom Rider Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yeah I saw that also, but if that frakking bonehead Lt Gov. thinks he will get 2/3's of the states to join his bandwagon, let alone 3/4's vote of the populace (from the states) to approve it, he is sadly mistaken.
     
  18. toydoc

    toydoc Monkey++

    Read an article about 2 years ago that said that the number of states that wanted a con con is just 2-3 states short of happening. The funny or sad part is that once your state is on the list it doesn't get taken off. Several had tried and the crooks er politicians would not take the names off. Hows that for forceing something down our throats. Just another case of hope and change.:rolleyes:
     
  19. WestPointMAG

    WestPointMAG Monkey++

    Where can we see this list?
     
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