One pistol. One rifle. What do you buy?

I love the way the human mind work's, no offence intended, we were asked, One pistol. One rifle. What do you buy? I answered accordingly for myself, and assumed that Jayde wanted some weapons that she could enjoy for recreational and everything else use.

My Wife really likes and would carry my Colt Detective special and the Mossberg Pump as her SHTF weapons. Them competition 12/67,5 slug's are not to be trifled with, and buck shot for the up close and personal point blank stuff.






Tony

 

Untill you mentioned location as 'great white north' had no question as to the choice I would suggest.

Handgun; Bersa Thunder 9mm. Easy to conceal (even if not legal in your area since talking about survival this could become an issue since being openly armed OR unarmed in something say like New Orleans after Katrina is problematic so concealed carry becomes important whe laws go out the window) and totaly reliable. I have around 1500 or so rounds through mine without a single malfunction. They also have a lifetime warrenty. As a big perk it costs about half of what a Glock dose, brand new mine was about $225. Capacity is 13+1 and you can get 17 round mags for it.

A handgun is realisticly most likely what you will rely on for defense since if SHTF and the bad guys are comeing its unlikely they will anounce themselves 1000 yards away, they will most likely be within handgun range before you know they are there and have ill intentions and inside the house its easier to manuver a lot of times than a long barrel of a rifle or shotgun (depending some on thelayout of the house) and if its a post TEOTWAWKI situation you can carry a handgun on your hip and still be productive to work in the garden, gather fire wood, butcher meat and in general do all the other things you will have to do to survive where if you are trying to drag a rifle along it will wind up leaned against a tree 10-20 yards away when you need it or you will fail to get the other things done and freeze or starve or die of thirst since you couldnt carry water in.

In short IMO the handgun is the most important from a deffensive stand point and the Bersa line of guns are ultra reliable at a bargain basement price.

Rifle; The rifle is most likely going to be getting you meat more than shooting at zombies on the horizon. A Ruger 10/22 is pretty reasonable on price to buy, reliable, accurate, cheap to shoot and simple. It can easily take anything up to dog size out to 100 yards if you put the shots where they need to be and inside 50 yards with proper shot placement can take deer and other large game but wouldnt be advisable for dangerous game. You are likely to have a LOT more chances to shoot rabbits, squirles, birds, coons and other small game than you will to get shots at large game particularly if everyone else is trying to hunt for food also. If you have to bug out then you can carry around 2-3k rounds of .22 ammo for the weight and space of 100 or so rounds of say 7.62x39 for an AK or SKS and can buy the ammo for a fraction of the price. Its also a gun that even on a tight budget you can afford to go out and shoot/practice all day long with regularly (500 rounds is about $12-$15) so will be more likely for you to become proficient with on a budget than a center fire rifle. While .22 is by no means a great defensive cal, there also arent many folks that will volunteer to be shot with one and high cap mags are easy to find for the 10/22 so with the cheap light ammo you can punch a bunch of small holes in BGs and put them down or lay down cover fire while you retreat or simply help them decide to go find easier pickings.

Now since you mentioned 'the great white north', Im not sure what area it would be (assumeing its not Canada with a handgun) but figure depending on which area you may have a good population fo big critters that can get unfriendly like bear, moose and so on. If thats the case, and wouldnt be a bad thing anyway, then with the saveing from buying a Bersa rather than a more popular name and a 10/22 rather than say an AR you can easily afford to go get a Mosin Nagat to be able to reach out for big game, stop dangerous animals or if need arose reach out and touch someone OR a shotgun in 12 or 20 ga and with slugs stop anything in North America inside 50-100 yards and work well for small game with field loads and a good supply of ammo for each gun.

If your buying new and have the money to get an AR (around $700+) and say a 1911 with brand name (say $5+) then you could get those 2 guns for the $1200+ OR you could get a Bersa thunder 9 (say $250), a Ruger 10/22 ($200 new or save $50 if find a decent used one), a pump shotgun (say $250) and take the other $550 that you would have spent on the other 2 and get a decent scope for the 10/22 ($50 will get one plenty good for use with a .22), 5000 of .22 ammo (around $150), 1000 rounds of 9mm ammo (say $200, for Wolf ammo from Cheaperthandirt.com in the add here from a couple months ago), 100 rounds of 9mm hydroshock (around $50) for deffense, 300 rounds of field loads for the shotgun (say $75 from Wallmart by the 100 packs for $25 each) and say 50 slugs (around $25 buying 5 packs for $5 each). So while the AR and a decent 1911 could be a great choice, if budget is a big issue then the other option mentioned for the same money gets you an additional gun and a respectable stock of ammo to start off with and even to carry you through for a while if SHTF and you didnt need it to practice up with.

So theres my drawn out 2 cnts worth on it.

 

I can tell most of youall are spending someone else’s money.

So lets do this on the cheep.

Long guns

Try to find a beat up, busted, nonworking and/or shot out Hi-Point 9mm or .40S&W carbine. If it was dropped in a wood chipper even better as long as the Sr. # block is included in the sale.

Failing that.

Look for an EAA or RAA Saiga 7.62x39. Less then $300.00 You could get a .223 but they render the brass unreloadable.
5 & 10 round mags to fit the 7.62x39 Saiga can be had for less the $10.00 each. I paid $1.00 + S&H each for 5 a while back. 30 and 40 round mags are $15.00 to $25.00 each. The mags will have to have to have some work done on them I think you can handle it. If not ask me.

As all ready said the Yugo 59/66A1 {SKS} are a good buy. But if you do buy one do not waste your money buying the flat back stripper clips buy the concave ones. 6 cookies should buy you 12 stripper clips.

The 91/30 rifle that fires the 7.62x54r round is effective against soft targets. Less then $150.00. Get the brass strippers or the ones that CTD sales. The rifle has a destacker under the bolt so it does matter how you load the clip. If need be the 91/30 makes a fine club.

As for shotguns look for my post “I add a shotgun” It was $186.00 with tax and will get the job done as well as a new shotgun that cost a lot more.

Shop around and do not be afraid to just walk away.

Hand guns. GET WHAT FITS YOU!

If a Hi-Point 9mm or .45 fits your hand get one. If it was ran over with a lawnmower even better.

Also look at the Cz 52 in 7.62x25 but only if your hands are some what on the large side. Now they make lousy carry guns and do not have a lot of knock down ability but if you can get the bad guys to stand in a queue you can shoot them all with one shot. The Cz52 can turn cover into concealment without any problem. Depending on what kind of a throwing arm you have you can takeout 19 bad guys with 8 shots. 8 with the bullets, 8 with the brass, 1 with the mag. 1 with the slide and 1 with the frame.

Shop around, hit the gunshows.

The prices on the tables are the “I will sell it to you for that if you are dumb enough to pay it” price.

If you know how to bake take cookies, you will be surprised what a half a dozen top of the line homemade cookies will buy.

Have any questions ask me on or off list that is what I am hear for.
Remember buy cheep and trade up not down.

 

Yup, if you know what you are looking at (or take a friend who dose) so you dont get a gun thats junk (unless its something like the Highpoints that have a guarantee like craftsman tools, dont care who has it or what happened they fix it or replace it if it has their name on it) then buying used will stretch your buying dollar a LOT further and get just as good of quality.

 

Living in Canada really narrows my choices as Ar 15 type rifles are restricted here and can only be used on an approved range. I went with a new 2008 stainless mini 14. I also have my smith and wesson duty pistol in 9mm. Both are nice firearms. They perhaps would not be my first choice somewhere else, but they are fine here. If I had to choose a different pistol in 9mm, I would opt for the CZ 75b in nickel. If another calibre was an option, I would take my 1911 in .45. The CZ us battle tested and proven and is a great shooter. The only other rifle I would consider is my CZ 858 in 7.62X39. Amazing rifle. Readily available in Canada too.

 

Thanks everyone for the advice. Got me some researching to do. I just heard about a guy at my local range who takes newbies out with all his guns and helps select the right one for need/ability. I think I'll be giving him a call this weekend. I'll be sure to let you all know what I end up going with.

I'm in the Pacific Southwest (of Canada) so we most definitely get big game. A bear in the backyard is not at all uncommon. And yes, we are still allowed to have handguns Just can't have a barrel length less than 4.15" and max mag capacity is 10.

 

you can get a sks or an ak and a couple of thousand rounds for the price of a m4. If I had to choose just one(it would hurt to do this) I would grab my yugo ak underfolder and my 1911.

 

Also dont forget that we have some odd prohibitions on rifles. I have a link here, http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/r&p_e.asp
but for those who want a run down, No FN's or of like design of FN's, No name brand AK's and no .32 or .25 cals.
Almost no 50's (the New styer is ok)
no SBR's, some AOWs.
Jayde for you Id suggest staying in the Non restricted for the Rifle, so that you can practice at any range. Id go with the XCR as a .223 caliber because it will drop any 4 legged animals with ease that are around here, and it will scare off the 2 legged kinds as well. Get a third scatter gun, an 870 or better in the remmington family (I like American made for guns, just seem to work better) and go with whatever pistol fits your hand best and feels good to shoot.
Where do you shoot primarily? and if you ever want a hunting buddy id gladly go out into the northern interior with yah!

 

I would choose my Merkel .500 Nitro Express Double Rifle and .22 Colt Woodsman pistol but wouldn't recommend these to someone with your criteria; my biggest threats are rabid elephants and squirrels. If you want advice from a silghtly eccentric recluse, get a shotgun and a revolver. Get a twenty gauge, it will protect you and feed you with any type game animal in North America and your kids and wife can shoot it comfortably. Doesn't matter what kind, get what you can afford; they will all do the job. Get a good quality revolver, double action. I prefer Smith and Wesson or Colt but you can get a good deal on Taurus (its basically a Brazilian made Smith and Wesson) or Rugers for much less money. I would get a four inch barrel because it is marginally concealable and reasonably accurate and easy to control. Get it in .357 magnum; you can shoot .38 special ammunition in them for small game or pests, ammunition is readily available anywhere in the world (except Britain, sorry Toemag) and you can get full-powered magnum rounds for larger game or defense.

 

I'm from the UK, but since leaving the (Brit army), I live as an ex-pat in Bavaria Germany, the picture's that I post are what I own.

Here's what I was shooting tonight at my local range.





Cheap and cheerful .22lr for the fun factor, 150 through the GSG 5 and another 50 through the Haemmerli Xesse.

Jayde, forgive me for going off topic, gun people have a habit of doing such things on a regular basis.

Tony

 

Well, the Bersa Thunder 9mm also comes with 10 round mags in areas where mag capacity is restricted and they make a full size that would meet the length requirment. Not sure on the lenght requirment but the Thunder .380 is great too and has a mag capacity of 7 rounds. I have over 2k rounds through that one with 1 jam so far.

If neither of these is doable then I would go with a .357 revolver. With good magnum loads it would be marginaly suited at least for the big critters like bear and such and more than enouph for 2 legged threats. As a perk you can also practice and shoot smaller criters up to man sized with the cheaper .38 special ammo.

 

Hey....... I resemble that remark.

 

Very True, I was thinking for where she is, There are not alot of Big game around. Sure we have deer, and bear,but those will take an oversized rifle bullet (.30X) and larger. I was thinking for deer ( we have an abundance of them), Along with the fact that most of Vancouver will head south to arizona or Florida, where they keep their other houses, the rest of the population will eliminate themselves rather quickly as they are usually dumb city folks.

 

Everyone's situation is different and their needs, while similar, depend on their environment and laws of the area. Here in Ohio, it is not legal to hunt deer with a rifle. Shotguns or large caliber handguns, (note: .45 ACP is not considered ample for deer while .357 mag is). So, my choice for a long gun had to be a shotgun for hunting large deer sized critters. With a pump shotgun you can have a lot of choices in what game you want to go for including home defense.

My advice is a minimum of a 6" barrel in a .357 mag for a handgun in your area, .44 mag if your wrists can handle it. - Some men can't handle the .44 mag. My first handgun was a S&W .22 because I needed something for trapping. I've shot and killed pig size animals, point blank, with that handgun.

There are just to many variables to say exactly what you should get, but if it's a rifle you decide on, I'd recommend a bolt gun say a Rem 700 in .243, 7mm08, or just go for the .308 as it is very popular and ammo is more common. The bolt gun is much simpler than a semi -auto, easier to care for and very reliable.

To sum it up, a .308 bolt rifle and a .357 mag handgun. Throw in a 20 ga pump as soon as money is available. Then get a reliable .22 rifle just for plinking and small game. Four guns is a bare minimum for meeting all your needs, while a good shotgun will cover most if not all in most cases.

 

Quigley makes a good point...... and it's why I asked where you live. If your in the Rural Northwest, you're gonna need something with more range and power than what you typically would here in the midwest. The biggest game we have is WT Deer and distances of over 200 yds would be quite rare. Most deer I've ever taken have been inside 50 yds or so.

Don't, however, underestimate the food gathering abilities of an accurate/scoped 22 rifle, even in the Northwest. A person could quietly pop enough songbirds, squirrels, rabbits, etc on a daily basis to keep themselves in protein. Ammo is cheap, abundant, and don't take much storage space.

 

For myself I am thinking M1A1 and a 1911.

For Jayde, I am thinking a Ruger 10/22 and a 20 gauge shotgun. The Ruger is great for young shooters, it is a fun rifle to shoot with no recoil and very little noise. Small game can be taken easily with it, and scopes can be mounted for more accurate shooting.

The shotgun is great because it can be used with birdshot to take all kinds of birds and small game, and buckshot and slugs can be used to take bigger game. It also works well for self defense.

These two firearms are both fun to shoot, cheap to shoot, and you can train someone to use them in a short amount of time. The big bonus is they are both relatively cheap.

 

Another option might be to get a good handgun in say .357 or some such then get a New England Arms handy rifle, you can then order additional barrels for it to shoot various shotgun and rifle rounds and the original rifle and the additional barrels are rather inexpensive. That along with the 10/22 for cheap practice and gathering small game and such could set you up prety well. The Handy rifle is a hinge action single shot but very simple and 100% reliable. Get say a 20 guage shotgun barrel, a .308 or similar cal barrel and if you want to make SURE you got something to knock the biggest moose or grizley on its butt you can also get a barrel for it in .45-70 and if you put that pea where it needs to be and the critter dont fall down just give up on shooting and run like hell.

 

So far I've shot out of PoCo and DVC. I live closest to SFGC though. I might head out there sometime next month for one of their "learn to shoot a rifle" family nights - give me a bit more hands on with some different rifles. Hopefully gonna get out to PoCo this weekend to decide on a handgun.

I'm in the midst of a debate with one of my friends (an unregistered gun owner) on whether or not to actually buy anything right now though. With the whole gun registry, we're both just a bit concerned that by actually registering a gun, when the SHTF, I'll be on the list for gun confiscation. For now he's suggesting I just stick with going to DVC every once in a while if I want to shoot, and if I really want to buy anything, do a border run. Enh...we'll see. I'll make that decision once I solve the more important dilemma of what to buy