One small bright light in Kentucky mid-term election results

Discussion in 'Politics' started by chelloveck, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    The electors in Rowan County did their job, and tossed Kim Davis out on her l@rd @ss.
    Rowan County now has a county clerk who will do his job in accordance with the Obergefell v Hodges decision. Applying the country's secular law, in accordance with the Constitution. A nice win for democracy over theocracy! (y)

    Perhaps the legal bills for Davis's defence (Some $225K or so) paid from the public purse convinced some tax payers that she was a liability that the County could ill afford to support.

    Kim Davis, Anti-Gay Clerk from Rowan County (KY), Has Lost Her Re-Election Race
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Maybe now she can find a job that does not conflict with her social and religious beliefs.
  3. BenP

    BenP Monkey+ Site Supporter+

    I don't think anyone noticed, all eyes were on Amy McGrath. The Amy McGrath loss is a glowing beacon of hope for humanity.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
    Seepalaces and Thunder5Ranch like this.
  4. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    True, she didn't perform the duties of her position...but it doesn't mean she was wrong.

    Just another indication of the fall of moral standards.
  5. BenP

    BenP Monkey+ Site Supporter+

    In my opinion .GOV can do whatever they want with the homosexuals, it is just pointless paperwork but I respect the woman and I was proud of her for what she did. I draw the line at our church, we will not attend a church that will marry them.
    arleigh, oldman11, Alf60 and 4 others like this.
  6. Merkun

    Merkun furious dreamer

    Dunerunner likes this.
  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Bagger at the local Scaggs Albertson's, maybe. No, No that wouldn't work either... Maybe it would be better if she found something where she didn't have direct contact with the public, so; Ballast could be a niche.
  8. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I think the point here is she was an employee of the County and it was decided by the Courts on how these marriage certificates/licenses were to be handled. Now, morally, religiously or even just personally she might not agree with that decision but her job was not to agree or disagree but simply to perform her job to the laws of the County and State which she wouldn't do. I would have had much more respect for her if she would have immediately resigned stating her disagreement with the law but, as I understand it, she didn't and, as such, took it upon herself to replace the Court and the people of the County and decide for herself what should be done. So, in my mind, she exceeded her authority, failed to comply with the law, and failed to perform her duties as prescribed.

    I understand why she did it and she should have resigned in protest, but her actions, in my mind, were greatly in the wrong especially considering she was representing the people of Rowan County and not just herself.
    techsar and chelloveck like this.
  9. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    At least she was willing to lose her job for her beliefs . I respect her for standing for her beliefs , that says more than giving in to the pressure ,, which means , in my opinion , she is not political . How many politicians do you know that have flip flopped on the issues just for a vote ??
    I'm not meaning this as an attack on this person , and if I'm out of line , I'll take my punishment . But I find it strange how ole Chello will almost never miss an opportunity to voice his disdain of the Christian faith and their beliefs , but will remain silent on the muslim religion , { I use this term , religion , just to not be hypocritical } , but he remains silent on their atrocities on women , gays , or little boys . And don't throw actions of some catholic priest with young boys as a defense here , that is on the individual , whereas the muslims has these atrocities ok'd in their koran.
    And if I'm wrong I will admit it , lord knows I am wrong more times than I care to admit , but , it happens . And like I said , this isn't an attack , ole Chello does bring some thought provoking content to light .
    oldman11 likes this.
  10. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @SB21 "At least she was willing to lose her job for her beliefs."
    I had to think about this a bit but it still doesn't wash... I mean, what if her beliefs believes the use of tobacco or alcohol was a sin so she refuses licenses of establishments where they are used? And, don't have condom machines or slot machines in those places because they are part of the devil's work also. What she is doing is using her position to force her beliefs on the community. It's the same damn thing concerning the 2nd Amendment in some places where some Sherriff or Legislator makes it extremely difficult or impossible for a citizen to excise their right to defend themselves and family.

    Yes, this is a slippery slope because sometimes the law is wrong (you think?). But, it was not like the law was trying to round up dissidents for incarceration or execution it was something relativity minor that went through a court process and found to be legal, justifiable and, more importantly, fair. 'Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness...'

    And, remember that county has all sorts of different religions in it, not just hers and maybe they thought it was okay - but - since it was against her religion she wouldn't issue the licenses even though that was her job.

    But, it doesn't have to be her religious belief for it could be any one of her beliefs and the outcome would be the same. It is the same thing as if she said she wouldn't issue Driver's Licenses to blue-eyed people because of her belief they were all related to Hitler's Aryans. Or, Concealed Carry Permits because she believes all guns are horrible instruments of death. Or, won't renew specific Building Contractor licenses because she believes they do bad work. Or, marijuana licenses. Where does it stop?

    She was an elected official. Paid to do a job. It is neither her job or responsibility to force her beliefs or her morals on you, me or the people of the County. She is just suppose to do her job as directed by County and State law, tend to her own knitting. And, if she plays the old trump card of 'God's law is above man's law' then I would say she's as bad as some of the Muslims Mullahs that want Sharia law here in America, same damn thing, and I definitely don't want them and I definitely don't want her involved in administrating my County. Hell, it's screwed up enough already...
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
    chelloveck likes this.
  11. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    Well, I can't argue with that . Those are good points . Duly noted .
    Bandit99 likes this.
  12. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    When you take a job , you don't always know all the aspect of the job till your doing it ,even if you've been trained some where else .
    Some jobs require a compromise , some are predictable some are not .
    A person with moral values is put in a position to perform a job and parameters change, and must decide what is to be done about it. Some people take what they do personally so the product of their work is something they have integrity doing. Some people have no integrity and do any thing their boss orders them right or wrong. "I am just fallowing orders" These are just as responsible as the one who give the order like it or not .
    I have quit several jobs due to these issues, regardless of the quality of pay .
    How much integrity do you have ?
    If I had a business I would hire this woman in an instant , I'd want people with integrity .
    Dunerunner likes this.
  13. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    perhaps I do not recall correctly???

    didn't she actually have a correct legal stance... the law she refused to follow was actually poorly written or some such...

    they jailed her but let her out because of that?
    oldman11 likes this.
  14. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @OldDude49 "...didn't she actually have a correct legal stance..."
    I honestly don't know but I certainly hope so. I still think she would have been better to resign and then seek and follow legal action.

    @arleigh "I have quit several jobs due to these issues, regardless of the quality of pay."
    Actually, you just proved my point. You resigned rather then do something you thought to be unethical, immoral, or plain wrong. And, this is where she is wrong, at least in my book. Don't get me wrong, I understand why she did it but she handled it wrong, completely wrong.

    And, no, I am not giving the LBGT community a pass because personally I think they are way out of control and need to be reined in. They certainly no longer have my support. The Portland Bakery case did it for me...they went way too far so whatever happens to them, whenever they are wronged, I will no longer empathize nor sympathize. However, in this case, the County Clerk wronged the people of Rowan County more than she did the LBGT community by not following the law.
    oldman11 likes this.
  15. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

  16. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    You are correct! A rare case of agreement between us, ;)

    No, she did not have a correct legal stance. Davis was not compliant with the secular law of the land vide Obergefell v. Hodges - Wikipedia decision, which required Rowan County officials (as well as all other government officials nationally) to issue wedding licences to all who were legally eligible to marry according to the law, following the SCOTUS's 5-4 ruling in favour of the plaintiffs...Davis not only refused to comply with the law personally, she used her official position as County Clerk, to direct her subordinates to decline requests from marriage licence applications from same sex couples also.

    Perhaps actually reading that Obergefell v Hodges decision might help clarify that misapprehension...

    Kim Davis was jailed because she committed contempt of court by refusing to issue marriage licences to those legally eligible to be issued one. At first she refused to issue licences to same sex couples, and then she refused, for a while to issue licenses to all couples (same sex and heterosexual). Five of the six deputy county clerks were prepared to issue marriage licences in accordance with the law (The only dissenting deputy county clerk being Kim Davis's son...surprise, surprise. (bit of nepotism there?). 'I've weighed the cost': Clerk jailed for denying same-sex marriage Kim was held in custody for six days until the presiding judge lifted the contempt of court injunction, having been satisfied that the compliant Rowan County deputy county clerks were issuing valid marriage licences to legally eligible marriage applicants, and that Kim Davis was not interfering with the issuance of marriage licences by her subordinates. Kentucky clerk Kim Davis released from jail after judge lifts contempt ruling

    The moral of the story is that religious laws do not trump secular laws that conform to the Constitution and its Amendments. Some here rant about Sharia law not being the basis for the law of the has to be said, that the religious laws of the Tanakh and the The Christian Testaments (and the sacred commands of other faith traditions), similarly have no legal standing, and nor should they have any standing at law. By all means if individuals wish to voluntarily bind themselves to religious customary law, then that is their personal choice, but they have no standing to bind others to it via the secular justice system / government administrative system.

    Kim Davis used her elected office to dictate to others whom she would serve, and whom she would not, based upon her own personal religious convictions...regardless of the beliefs or otherwise of those whom would legally be entitled to be served, in accordance with the law of the land. I am not heartbroken that Ms Davis is no longer drawing an annual salary of some $80K or so, who was not prepared to serve the people of Rowan County faithfully as she was sworn to do.
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