Open Borders

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Seacowboys, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Somebody help me out here? The reason that we don't want Mexicans here is that they do the jobs that we don't want to do, for less money than we are willing to do them for? Or is it because of the Social Security and Welfare system that we can't sustain anyway? If every Mexican that has crossed the border illegally were returned at Mexico's expense and restitution was paid for every cent cost the American people with interest, it still wouldn't save the entitlement system that .gov has created. I think the Mexicans just give the pundits something to hang the blame on and divert attention from the ponzi scheme that they are perpetuating.
    I am in favor of taking over Mexico and Canada and turning them into States. Panama is a much smaller border to defend than Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. If anybody with enough balls to cross the North Pole to get here can do it, they have my blessing.
  2. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    STANGF150 likes this.
  3. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Do we really need more territory though? The idiots that we have in Washington couldn't administer a county government properly. Do we want to challenge them further?

    Besides, Canada may be our lifeboat sometime, after this marvelous old ship of ours is run aground by the intellectually challenged, self interested, professional politicians that are laughingly called our "representatives."
  4. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    It always bothers me big time when people call Social Security an 'entitlement' - it's NOT, it is something we PAY into for thirty years or more, an 'investment' if you will. It is NOT voluntary - we are forced to pay. OUR money set aside to be given back to us when we reach a certain age to help us, not to be a 'sole source' of income. But, like many supposedly sacrosanct fund buckets, it gets raided illegally by the FedGov. The problem, as usual, is the FedGov itself violating their own laws and rules.
    Now, Welfare is something altogether different, and should have much tighter controls. But to even hint at actually checking the recipient to make sure they are eligible we get screamed at for 'racism'. Personally, I'd scrap the whole program. The FedGov should NEVER have gotten into the charity business. Leave that to the private sector.
    As the unConstitutional FedGov continues to raid our retirement accounts - yes, they want to - they will soon learn what starving people do when stolen from. It won't be pretty.......
    I do NOT want 'open borders'... keep the 'riffraff' out. I'd throw a ring of steel around DC in a heartbeat. THAT is virtually a foreign country, playing by their own made-up rules as they go. Mexico has too many problems of their own and are already wanting the US to fix them! Canada is better, but not without their own troubles. We don't need to inherit either......

    Thus endeth my rant for the morning....... [booze]
  5. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

  6. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Although you are correct in that it is not voluntary or an entitlement, it has been turned into a non-recoverable ponzi scheme and therefore, is not relevant. We have been directed to utilize Mexico as a scapegoat, a diversion...nothing more and I challenge you to disprove it.
  7. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey+++

    You can't disprove an assertion like that. The burden is upon the person who makes the assertion to prove it.

    The reality is that any sovereign nation should have certain protections to keep non-citizens from becoming de facto citizens. We have laid those aside and made it possible for virtually anyone to show up within our borders and essentially become a citizen in everything but name.

    Who said we don't want Mexicans here? I couldn't care less about the nationality of immigrants--I just want them here legally. As far as them doing jobs for less than Americans, if they do it legally, I'm all for it. If they are getting paid cash under the table and not paying taxes, I'm not. That would confer an unfair benefit upon someone because they started the game by breaking the rules.

    Yes, entitlements are a ponzi scheme. That, however, does not relate to the aforementioned issue. You have fallaciously tied the two together and made an invalid argument.

    If you are for taking over Mexico and Canada, you might read a little history about the issues that came up during the reunification of East and West Germany. Magnify that by about 50 or more if you were to integrate Mexico and Canada (presumably after conquering them, since I doubt either would willingly become states).

    Doing what you suggest would decrease the borders only with respect to land. It would dramatically increase the coastlines that would need to be defended. Also, we have a porous border not because we lack the ability to defend it, but because we lack the will to do so.
  8. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    A nation without boarders in not a nation. As far as annexing Mexico......the oppsite has happened we lost California to Mexico. Many goovernment fly the Mexican flag. Los Angeles is the 2nd largest Spanish speakig city on earth next to Mexico City.

    Soical Security is just another tool the the goovernment useds to control the people.
    Who in their right mind would allow someone to take their property now hoping to get it back later if the goovernment feels like it, and thats provided you dont die. WHAT A COMPLETE SCAM
  9. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Says you
  10. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey+++

    How is mine any worse an argument than yours? I could just as easily rebut your argument by typing, "Says you", but that wouldn't really advance the conversation much.
    Redneck Rebel likes this.
  11. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Made no judgement about it other than to shrug my shoulders and saw nothing else there of value beyond another opinion and a childish statement asserting that my challenge was invalid and therefore, I must prove the opposite to my own conjecture; did I read that right?
  12. radpug

    radpug Monkey+

    While immigration can be helpful for a country in order to fill out areas in the
    Economy that are lacking resources.
    A un controlled legal and illegal migration which changes the very demographics
    Of a country is cultural suicide.
    Especial in a large part when the majority of people that enter seem not to want to be
    Capt. Tyree, STANGF150 and Espada like this.
  13. Espada

    Espada Monkey+

    All three points on the money. Plus, quite frankly, I'm urinated at the attitudes of some coastal and high northern states as to where this country should go... Jeebus help us if the entire population of Mexico were to to be incorporated and given voting rights.

    10th Amendment, strictly enforced. Do remember, that "States," as referenced in the Constitution, were sovereign "nations," with all the rights thereunto appertaining, except those surrendered to the federal government, minting money, &c. Webster's will tell you the same... that's why there are not 50 "provinces" in the U S A.

    We ARE different countries... California attitudes are as different from Texas attitudes as Somalia's are from Germany's.
    tacmotusn and Seawolf1090 like this.
  14. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    I'll continue to differ in my opinion, as valid as any other - we obviously have totally different experiences leading us to see the same thing in totally different ways - we could push our chests out, and like a couple kids on the playground, get into a game of "Oh yeah? Sez you!" "oh yeah, well sez YOU back!"

    I'd prefer to keep things more civil, and just allow as how we differ in our views.

    As to Mexico, my statement stands. They are majorly screwed up, and have been demanding the USA make major changes to OUR way of life to accomodate THEM. Screw them and the burro they rode across the border on. If they do things legally, I'll welcome them as new Americans. Come over illegally, they are criminals, pur & simple. What part of "Illegal" gives you problems....?
    We try to tighten our immigration laws and actually ENFORCE same, we get branded as racists. Look at Mexico's immigration laws - VERY strict! We should adopt the exact same policies.
  15. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Im not sure what the arguement is. Common sense says a country must have safe and secure boarders.
    As far as illegal workers they have ruined countless honest trades including every trade there is in the building industry, the damage is most likley non repaireable. Should we contuniue to allow the practice NO, will it continue YES. Will the democrats fix it nope, will the republicans fix it nope.

    As far as Social Security its a pur Comminust Socialist pimko program and contuniues only because of the massive gun power of the goovernment and the stupity of the poeple.
    Seroiusly no one would volinteer to have 15.5% of their property taken away in hope that they live long enought to get a few checks after they cant work.
    Capt. Tyree and tulianr like this.
  16. Espada

    Espada Monkey+

    And then have 30 % of it taxed away if you continue to work after age 65.

    (Thanks, Democrats, and the deciding vote by Al Gore as president of the Senate.)
  17. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    What is going on with this forum? I will not let me paste documents into a thread?
  18. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

  19. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    While I absolutely agree with you, that people should be able to save for their own retirement, and do a better job of it than the government has thus far been able to do with the Social Security program, I know an awful lot of people who would be utterly destitute if not for the Social Security program.

    Please note that I am not dinging everyone drawing Social Security. It is our money, and should any of it remain in the account by the time that I reach the age to begin withdrawing it, I fully intend to do so. Those individuals I am talking about are the ones who would simply be sitting on the street corner with a cup in their hands, were it not for Social Security, because throughout their lives, they have never assumed responsibility for their own survival.

    Sadly, stupid seems to be the norm, and most people don't see the problem with living hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck. I include most of my family in that statement. Setting aside at least ten percent of their paycheck seems to be beyond them. Having more than a couple of days' groceries in the house seems to be beyond them. Getting a new tattoo, or computer game, or electronic toy is more important to them than is saving for their future, and preparing for a rainy day.

    Our safety net culture has eliminated most of the consequences for making stupid choices and decisions. The force of natural selection has been temporarily suspended by our society's rewarding laziness and stupidity. Sooner or later though, nature will win out, and the bill will come due; and instead of the lazy and stupid being called to account, our entire society will have to pay the bill.
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    If you'd like to run the numbers, do so. You'll find that if you last the average life span, you can expect to get back about half the money saved for you by dot gov. Some savings program, eh? And those that don't get to finish their allotted time on earth, well, their contributions also go to feeding the bureaucracy, along with your other half.

    But I'm glad to take my monthly check, I earned it. If you want to call it an entitlement, be my guest. After all, I'm entitled to my property.

    Now close the borders and get the burden off my back.
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