Oregon court rules Christian bakery must pay $135G to lesbian couple

I am sure all of you have heard of this case as it is quite famous. Apparently, it went to the Oregon Court of Appeals and my guess is that it will go higher as they are so indebted that - well - in for a penny, in for a pound...

This case has had my interest from the start as I can see right and wrong on all sides and I am not really sure how it should be handled BUT I am sure it has been handled incorrectly, very incorrectly.

Overview...
Basically, we have a law abiding, Christian couple with a bakery that due to religious reasons refused to make a wedding cake for a lesbian couple. The lesbian couple then sued and won and here we are...

Here are the points as I see them. Please add to them...

The Christian bakery couple:
1. Refused on religious grounds not on race, gender or creed...
2. Own the bakery so one would assume they can refuse service to whomever they wish
3. One could further assume that since it was indeed on religious reason/belief that the Constitution would stand by them.

The Lesbian couple:
1. Believed they were treated unfairly and unjustly and took legal action to protect their rights as citizens

The Oregon Courts:
1. Fearing how this could lead to other LGBT cases of inequality and the possibility of individuals of different race or creed could be denied service plus wanting to make a clear statement - well - they dropped the hammer or as they put it in legalese "to the full extent of the law" to the tune of $135,000 plus court costs.

So, I understand the Christian couple. I also understand the Lesbian couple. Hell, I even understand the Oregon Court but... But, it is not right. And, just because the court ruled still doesn't make it right! This is about the same thing as a Nun being force to pay for birth control...

I think this whole thing has been handled horribly. As I said before, I am not sure of the CORRECT way it should be handle but feel sure it was INCORRECTLY handled.

In my opinion, the court is the one to blame here...

First, $135,000 for refusing to take the work due to religiously reasons? And, where do they get that sum for a cake? This is what they consider to be fair punitive damages? What if they refused because they were too backlogged with work? The punishment does not come close to fitting the crime, it exceeds it and is itself a crime! This in itself is an terrible injustice and the court should be sued. Furthermore, their heavy-handed judgement has done more disservice to the LGBT community then ever a simple Christian couple could do by refusal to bake a cake.

Second, while it could be said that the Lesbian couple has done themselves $135,000 worth of good they have not done the LGBT community any good bringing this law suite forward. Of this, I am 100% certain. Frankly, it is quite opposite. I am not saying they were involved with any of the harassments or threats but nevertheless they and others will pay for it with contempt, disgust, and disregard. It has changed my opinion about the community completely as I was supportive prior to this but no longer for they have lost my good opinion. They act like BLM/ANTIFA then I will think of them as such. They greedily take $135,000 for such a simple slight - well - with my good opinion and support has gone my respect so do not expect it in the future.

Third, in my eyes, the Christian couple should have shown Christian goodness and gone forward with the cake but I do understand their dilemma but, in truth, think it ridiculous.

All-in-all, this is a great mess, and in truth - I think it's politics - for the real question here is about religion vs. the government...not a wedding cake.

So, how do you think it should have been handled? And, of course, comments?



Oregon court rules Christian bakery must pay $135G to lesbian couple

 

^^^^Agreed^^^
This isn't over until SCOTUS hears it out!
Likely will uphold the 1st adm. rights of the Bakers over the Lesbians and both States will be seriously punished. About time Or. got it's ass handed to it, but we shall see what happens.

 

its too bad that the didnt have a sign like in a bar 'we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone'

what really pisses me off is that the 'couple' insted of going somewhere else and acting like a civilized human being and getting their cake else where, (who in their rigth mind goes where they aren't wanted?) decided to push this issue and have now bankrupted a small business.

 

The sign I remember seeing in most businesses I went in years ago was " We reserve the right to serve anyone ". Your business , your rules. That's my belief. If you want their money , serve them , if you don't , there you go.
I saw a YouTube video from a Christian group that went into a coffee house , owned by a gay guy. The owner found a flyer a few days prior on the sidewalk referencing the gay lifestyle , and the church's view , and pro life choices. The Christian group ( 4-5 people ) were not doing nothing but drinking coffee and talking , they , from the video , seemed to be the only people in the place , I think they were overheard by an employee , talking about Jesus , or something along the lines of their Christian faith. Well the queer owner comes in and his tirade is unbelievable towards these people , some of the stuff this guy said is stuff I couldn't even imagine saying. He was telling them to get out of his restaurant , they were not welcome , the things this guy said he did to God ,,,unbelievable,,,,all because they were Christian.
Point being , there is definetly a double standard . Why do we have to accept them , but they do not have to accept us ?
Kiss my ass , I wouldn't give the Sombitches a freakin' nickel if it cost me my freakin life. I was raised on principles , good honest , God fearing principles. I ain't changing my beliefs for no court , if it's the principles this country was founded on , and the principles I was raised on. Go f'k yrself.

 

Let's see here, what if the gay couple had chosen a Muslim bakery? Would this have turned out any differently? What would the State say? How about ever other special group's?
Equal rights do not mean special rights, and when special rights stand against enumerated rights, what should happen is the Constitutnal rights granted hold final sway, they should be beyond contestation, PERIOD!!!

 

I feel a business owner should be able to refuse service to any customer.
This case, in particular, is ludicrous, at best. The women, in no way, shape, or form, suffered $135,000 USD in damages. Drop the stupid case and walk away. It is crazy, how easy you can be sued in the US.
Here in Asia, they would laugh you out of the city, for trying something like that.

 

Relevant judgement documents relating to the Sweetcakes prosecution and appeal.

http://www.oregon.gov/boli/SiteAssets/pages/press/Sweet Cakes FO.pdf

http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/docs/A159899.pdf


Relevant references to the Masterpiece Cake Shop Ltd et al Vs Colorado Civil Rights Commission et al.

Colorado baker case opens at U.S. Supreme Court

Search - Supreme Court of the United States

 

Worship money.
Bake the damn cake.
Who cares how gay they are.

 

If it's against my religious beliefs, and certainly my business where I wish to refuse service to anyone, I do.
Hence, one of the reasons I reside in SEA.

 

Again this goes back to no good deed goes unpunished.
You think you are doing the right thing but end up with a huge headache instead.

 

It's just sad that our country is losing the very moral fabric it was founded on.

 

Exactly. I’m sure they’ve baked a cake for a real naughty bride and groom. Possibly a pregnant bride. (Or groom) Probably baked a cake for a groom that has socked a lady. On and on it goes. Who cares!!!!???

 

So what' worse again?
Being gay or being a knocked up bride to be?
I don' remember reading that part in the bible.

Jokes on them, they have more than likely baked a cake for lesbians be fore where the butch one is more manly than I am, they just didn't catch it.

 

That is for each of us to determine by our convictions and beliefs.

I'm sure if they knew it was for two lesbians to marry, they would have done similarly. When two guys come walking in and telling them, I'm pretty sure that was a giveaway.

 

Yes, I wondered about the sign also. Would that be enough to insure one isn't sued? And, yes, who indeed would go where they aren't wanted? And, to purposely harm somebody so harshly for such a minor slight - well - to me this shows the couple was indeed unstable. And, sadly, I hope that they get their comeuppance twice as harsh. I really do. I understand they were angry and hurt and it was not a good thing but life is that way at times but to be so vindictive especially when the Bakers really didn't do any harm...

@SB21 "into a coffee house, owned by a gay guy. The owner found a flyer...his tirade is unbelievable towards these people..."
And, yet they did not file a $135,000 lawsuit against him. They were not wanted and left and, I imagine, never to return.

@Asia-Off-Grid "It is crazy, how easy you can be sued in the US. Here in Asia, they would laugh you out of the city..."
In all honesty, it is the thing I fear most since returning stateside - not armed criminals, not car accidents, not terrorists - but being sued by someone for some silly thing. It's ridiculous and scares the hell out of me. My wife still doesn't understand or believe it and thinks I am overreacting because like you say, "in Asia the would laugh you out of the city." She's from Asia also...

@Ura-Ki "Let's see here, what if the gay couple had chosen a Muslim bakery?"
Yes, I had this thought also. Would the outcome be the same? Something tells me it would not...

 

Something here, I'm betting the gay couple went in looking for a fight, and they got one! I know this bakery, having been there many times, and the owners are pretty chill, so, in my mind, something set the owners off, tripped their gaydar as it were, and that' what started things off. I' Also betting I have run across the couple, and like many that live in that area, are very vocal about their special rights! I also know both the Sheriff and the county prosecutor, both were extremely upset, and very reluctantly acted to try to defuse the situation as best as they could. At some point, the gay couple went off on Sheriff Garette, and forced it up the flag pole! Its sad, but these people feel extra sensitive about any precieved slight to their way of life that they go off at any thing. I had a run in at a gas station while fueling my pickup and boat, the butch went off on me for taking up the full lane, nevermind that both machine' are being fueled! The station manager came out and tried his best to defuse before finally refusing to serve the butch and asked it to leave!!! It's an ongoing deal in that A.O.!!!

 

@Ura-Ki "having been there many times, and the owners are pretty chilled...Sheriff and the county prosecutor... acted to try to defuse the situation...these people feel extra sensitive about any perceived slight to their way of life..."
Well, I guess I won't be going to Oregon anytime in the near future as why take the risk of getting sued if I happen to look at someone cross-eyed. I need to read about this Colorado thing that BTPost was talking about and hope for the best because all that happens with idiotic rulings like from the Oregon Appeals Court is it fuels more and more such lawsuits, people see it is a way to make a fast buck while getting their pound of flesh but it sours the gay community's name to the public and costs them support which they might just need someday in the near future.

EDIT: You Oregon folks need to take a lesson from @3M-TA3 and pop smoke and move to Idaho. The more I hear about Oregon the more it sounds at least as bad as San Francisco if not worse. Idaho is a great place! I moved here 3 years ago and believe I hit the jackpot! You'll never hear a bad word from me about Idaho...except when I got a snow shovel in my hand, like now...grumble, grumble, grumble...

 

To be fair, this A.O. is just west of Portland, and is known for its liberal LGBT whatever community, giving that it's home to both Nike and Intel, and thousands of employees, it's also a very devided commnity with a strong disparity of income and people have a strong option of each other. The vast majority of the gays are nice and quiet people, BUT, it' also a hot bed of liberalism, almost as bad as Portland, with a large number who have been pushed out by the huge income gap, it all adds up to things like this. Rural Or, is still a VERY free State, with a lot of very conservative folks and very old school beliefs and behaviour! No where will you find a better gathering of Americans, sadly, the big 3 cities Portland, Salem, and Eugene have really dragged the State down into the gutters! Bandit99 if you ever get a chance to visit OryGun, do so, head out to the coast and enjoy the legendary sunsets, or head up to the mountains, and enjoy some of the best snow sports 24/7 or head out to one of the hundreds of rivers and enjoy some of the best Salmon and Steelhead fishing in the world! Just stay away from the big 3 cities, and your fine!

 

From what I understand, it is Portland and Eugene that you want to steer clear of, while there. The rest of the state is pretty well okay.