Organic Food

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Tracy, Apr 6, 2008.

  1. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    A quick trip to the grocery store has me cracking up, so I thought I'd ask if anyone else has seen this:

    Vegies labeled "organic" underneath the sprayer (chlorinated water) in the produce isle. Doesn't that just nullify the organic-ness of it all? Why should I (or anyone else) pay more for food that is no longer organic? Isn't there a requirement to maintain the ability to label a food organic?

    Also; a dear truck-driving friend told me he had to pick up from an organic turkey farm (not free range, but organic) and it was the nastiest place he'd ever seen. I asked him how they cleaned the place, if they weren't allowed any chemicals and he indicated that it didn't look (nor smell) like they had (eeew again), that all they could use was non-chlorinated water. Since he's a strong-stomached old farmer, when he says something's gross, I know it has to be beyond belief.

    Gee, it would be great if someone on Board knew something about food, its labeling and inspection practices (;) ;) )

    I'm just about sick of corporate "organics". I got a bad taste (if you will) from a batch of hazelnuts that I picked up that had worms in them (eeew). I can't grow everything that I want to eat (okay, WG & OGM, you can prove me wrong, here :) ), but ~snivel~ I don't want to wait for a filbert tree to grow when I can go to a local farm to get some.

    At this point, I'm thinking bring back those good, old-fashioned, kill-all-the-bugs pesticides that really worked and call it dinner.
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    The feds have made some regulations on what is organic, and what is not. I think you can research that pretty readily on the Consumer Reports website. Very strange definitions, if the usual alphabet jargon holds true. Might be an interesting project --
  3. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    I would say that you are 100% correct Tracy. You can't grow everything that you WANT to eat, neither can we. What we have done is to learn to eat what we can grow. There lies the difference. Yes we do buy food as well. But if [shtf]we could get by and likely do well. Most people think they have to have food from all over the country/world. If you are growing/hunting everything that you eat then your diet will change drastically.

    As far as paying extra for organic food I would not do it but thats just me. Anything ran is suspect at best in my book. Meat can be labled organic if the feed that was given was not organic and organic feed is twice the price or more of non-organic feed.

  4. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Publix Grocery sells "Organic Vegetarian Chicken Eggs" . . . [ROFL]

    Maybe that's where the old 'green eggs' of C-Rats came from . . .
  5. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    I'm a chemist by degree and a food scientist because that's what they pay me to do.
    I know some about the organic crap.

    Organic has 3 classifications. 100% organic, organic (made with 50-60 to 95% organic ingredients) and made with organic (upto the 50-60% cutoff).

    Google "USDA organic" for more detailed info. There are many ingredients that can be used in organic foods that are not organic. They have to be cleared before they can appear on the "exemption" list. However using these count against the 100% total.

    The chlorinated water would probably nullify organic status. Not a crime if they're not caught. Being frugal I'd just point that out to the produce manager and say I'll give you 50 cents on the dollar for the now non organic produce. haha

    There are not many, if any "organic" pesticides. These can be made in fact from plants themselves, it's something I hope to work on soon. However it is costly. All plants produce phytotoxins to protect them from bugs. However they make them in small quantities and the plant must be injured for it to produce the phytotoxin. So making these on a mass scale "organically" would be a chore. So many plants and phytotoxins so little time.

    As to the turkey farm, these facilities are inspected/audited annually to maintain their organic certification. just like any goober program there could be kickbacks. However if the auditor is honest and they are not operating by the rules they will not be allowed to sell their turkeys as organic. BTW Hydrogen peroxide solutions are ok to use for cleaning in organic certified production places. It decomposes to oxygen and water and kills all the microorganisms. I've seen it used to clean bottle before organic yogurt and smoothies were filled in them as well as in organic aloe.

    The USDA website will list all ingredients allowed and exempted for use in organic foods. There are not that many of them. I hate sourcing organic ingredients and jumping through all the hoops for organic customers. If you have any other questions give me a shout and I'll see if I can find a concise answer for you.
  6. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Get the book, you will never want to go to the grocery store again
  7. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

  8. FalconDance

    FalconDance Neighborhood Witch

    The Dec 2007 amendment to the Allowed list for livestock:

    Amendment for crops and livestock:

    The National List of Allowed and Prohibited Substances:

    (The national list was originally passed in 2000 and amended in 2003. I included only the latest two amendments above. All are in .pdf format from the USDA itself.)
  9. Abby Normal

    Abby Normal Monkey++

    Publix Grocery sells "Organic Vegetarian Chicken Eggs"

    Silly me, I thought ALL chickens were vegetarians.....

  10. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    Chickens naturally go out on soil to scratch; they eat insects, seeds, worms, amphibians, rodents and anything else they can catch. Chickens do not naturally live in cages eating vegetarian food.

    I asked the produce manager in my local grocery store about the organic vegies being saturated with city (chlorinated) water. They have a filtration system for the watering system and he's just sure that it eliminates chlorine.

    Good heavens! According to the lists, it doesn't seem that there's much "organic" left in organic foods. IMO; just another label tactic to enable them to charge more to the consumer.
  11. jash

    jash Monkey+++

    The better half and I ran a wholesale greenhouse operations (mostly herbs-over 300 varieties). Our "organic" pesticides effected everyone the worst. They had a four hour reentry and we could only go back in after 24. It made breathing hard, and broke us all out in these horrible rashes. And this was made from plants. Organic doesn't mean they don't use pesticides-it means they used "approved" pesticides. Also, orgnanic for animals is pure crap. Walmart has there own organic dairy-few thousand cows in it. If you can't follow the organic dictates of the government you don't have to for animals/animal by products. Loook it up, it is nuts. If you want good produce find a local CSA or farmers market where you can get to know the people who actually grow it.
  12. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    You are joking right???? When I butcher the chickens will fight over the gut pile. [fight2]

  13. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Chickens are more than just meat-eaters - they can turn predatory!
    When Dad raised chickens, they had eliminated all growing green stuff from their yard. We'd toss roaches, frogs and mice we'd catch to them - they gulped them down!
    A few times, I'd see a sparrow alight in the chicken yard - and barely escape with his life - the nearest chickens pounced on him! :shock:

    CHICKEN - the ultimate OMNIVORE!!

    I checked out the 'organic' section of the supermarkets here - I can't afford to 'eat organic'!
  14. FalconDance

    FalconDance Neighborhood Witch

    A "vegetarian" chicken is a completely un-natural chicken. It's one of those feel-good human disruptions in the natural scheme of things.

    Personally, I WANT my chickens to eat all the bugs they can possibly find! Mice and snakes, too!!!
  15. MO titmouse

    MO titmouse Mrs monkeyman

    The word Organic will add at least $2 to the price of that item. my chickens and goats will eat all most any thing i give tham. and in return i eat tham.
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