Discussion in 'Firearms' started by E.L., Jan 24, 2006.
WOW, cool. Great post.
I like the fact that the .40 S&W data was done from a Glock 27, my primary carry weapon.
Thanks for the post.
Glad you liked it. It is amazing how much difference denim makes in the testing, and how the HP's don't expand but over-penetrate. Basically wearing denim reduces the HP's to ball ammo. Another reason why the .45 is a good idea.
That Ranger bullet just tears em up, those litlle spikes are to be feared.
I've always used Federal's Hydra Shok ammo...but if it overpenetrates I'm loosing stoping power...I'm gonna have to think about this one. Anyone have advice on this subject, I'm by no means an expert.
If memory serves me correctly the old "talon" bullets of the early 90's have always proven to be good expanders even with heavy clothes in the way. They also created a wound channel that was particularly hard to deal with by surgeons. If I am not mistaken the rangers are either copies of the talons or pretty darn close. They seem to have consistant expansion even through denim compared to just balistic gelatin. You might want to run tests of your own against your particular targets.
Based on what I have seen from recovered rounds fired into live tissue (when Im slaughtering for butchering, mostly pigs) and the wound channels and such I have NO worries in trusting the Hydroshocks. Keep in mind on penetration also that if it dosent overpenetrate in soft tissue (or gelitan and such) then if it hits bone its likely to splatter. I had this happen with .38 spl +P self defense Winchester White Box ammo, which is a jacketed hollow point, I shot a pig in the head with that round 5 times and recovered all the slugs from just inside the skin (3 in places I KNOW a .22 lead round nose will penetrate every time) and they had flattened out to between the size of a nickle and a quarter, the pig was still running around untill I shot ot with a .357 jacketed soft point. I have used a .380 hydrashock to put down a pig though and 1 shot to the head did it instantly with an excelent wound channel (better then most rifle rounds I have tried) and penetrated to the lower neck, held together and expanded.
Just my observations.
Your right Hartage, the rangers are basicly talons with a different name. Can't call them talons anymore after that dip shit shot those people with them in San Fran. Check out the link below, penetration and expansion of these rounds in various mediums says it all!!!
Thanks for the info guys. Restores my faith in the rounds I've been using.
Bummer they didn't test good ammo in .45. Ranger SXT or Ranger T ammo are improved Black Talon rounds for those wondering. THere are also new versions of Black Talons out there and they're crazy expensive but no better than the Ranger series of ammo.
I'm glad things like this are published so people might get a clue and stop thinking the wonder ammo of the 90's is actually crap (hydrashoks) which because of the post in them, never expand through clothing. This is why there are HSTs (postless hydrashoks) and the Ranger line. Also, the speer gold dot or lawman ammo are a good, reliable round for expansion and penetration.
There's a lot of new ballistic tip stuff (red nylon tip inside hp bullet) on the market now. That is supposed to solve this problem.
They say that clothing fills the hollow point and just makes it into a round nose therefore no expansion.
The ballistic tip is supposed to purposely fill the HP in a manner that forces it to expand every time.
I wish I knew more about this. Will post if I can find some data.
Rumor is the SXT of the winchester rangers stands for same exact thing as the talon. I've shot a couple of deer with 44 mag talons and it is devastating.
It's no rumor. Winchester did gain the rights to the black talon rights/design/something after they were attacked by Congress for being too evil and scary and quietly developed their Rangers using the black talon design and they improved some things. We know them today as the SXT and T line of their Ranger brand. "SXT = Superior Expansion Technology." They are designed, unlike some other JHPs to expand regardless of barrier. One of the improvements on the Ranger rounds over their predecessor (talons) is that they are designed to stay intact (not sure if bonded) to maintain the full mass as they expand and impact.
As for the ballistic tip rounds, I think those are primarily for rifle rounds. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen pistol caliber rounds with the tips..well, except maybe for the FN Five Seven rounds.
Some good pics of the Ranger, GDHP, and HST rounds (in gun forums all over, these two are the more popular ones):
*take note of the ranger "T" round with it's wicked "talon" claws sticking out making for a very bloody, gnarly perm cavity!
Here is an updated link to my above post. Great info!
Why do the make bullets that work better on naked people? Do they have something against nudist?
I'd think if they resembled some I have seen on the boob tube, it would only be a waste of ammo and effort...But then again, there's always the "spandex" crowd!
Like shooting ballisitc gelatin in a sock!
Some bullets may not penetrate some of the massive and heavier targets however!
"The Blubber bullet stoppers"
The problem the Hydroshocks have had all along is the center post getting wound up in clothing/fabric.. causing them not to expand. I hear the latest versions are better but have not seen proof
I prefer Speer Gold Dots which do not suffer from this issue, and expand fully with fabric barrier, or not
I saw results about identical to the Ranger SXT .40 cal in the .45 ACP version of the Black Talons. I used the "poor man's" ballistic gel as an expansion medium (sopping wet phone books). Did the test a little over 20 years ago and saw about 8 or 9 inches penetration with expansion out to about .78 caliber (230 gr HP) when discharged from a 4 inch barreled Combat Commander from 15 feet. Impressive.
Back from the dead - a zombie thread !
If Aff hadn'ta ressurected this I'da never found it. Great link in the OP.
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