Perhaps a Little Understanding Will Help

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by UncleMorgan, Mar 24, 2019.


  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    That is a people problem. In my opinion, the Native Americans were a migrating people. They had summer lands and winter lands. They followed the animals. The natives may have had small portions that settled but mainly they moved to where they could survive. Nomads, tribes etc.. all those ancient ways of living seemed to know what it took us years of destruction to figure out. We now seem to settle in cities and it makes us comfortable to over- breed IMO. People live for today, next month, next 20 years but rarely do people look beyond their life span. That is an issue.

    I really enjoyed the OP video. That fella admitted his mistake, gaining my respect. Most try and justify rather then admit they were plain out wrong. That is a lost quality. His theory of needing migrating herds rings true but that would be hard to accommodate in more settled countries. How could one save the western states with this method? I know we have wild horse herds and wild life but when they become a threat to people and development, steps are taken to reduce their foot print. The West is drying up, something needs to be done.
     
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  2. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Let me put my pessimist hat back on... Yes, this would be a wonderful thing however, it goes against mankind's inherit nature. This would mean all the people of the world have to agree to do the right thing and we cannot agree on anything, and I mean this literary, even in our own country we cannot agree on anything. Perhaps if we ever get to a world government then it might be possible but until then our population will continue to be uncontrollable, deforestation will continue, people will make war because their God is the one God, and let's not forget to throw greed and power and etc. into the mix. Man is his own worse enemy and he is definitely the enemy of the planet. Before you change the planet you must change mankind.

    The possible endings as I see them:
    1. A planet that is consumed by war due to lack of resources and dense population and made inhospitable and both mankind and the planet die a slow horrid death. Game Over.
    2. The space program saves mankind by getting us off this rock but doesn't do much for the planet except shows how not to screw up a nice place.
    3. We are contacted by another intelligent life form, an ET, which brings about a common form of world government which regulates everything in order to save the planet from ourselves and by doing so saves mankind.
    4. Or, as I stated in a previous post, at some point when resources become scarce and population numbers are insane (think we have problems now, think 20+ billion people), governments will cull the world's population somehow, someway...
     
  3. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    I think the main thing is just to install managed herds on the land and migrate them around at the correct speed. How many? Not sure. It probably depends on the degree of aridity and the size of the property. Any kind of livestock will apparently do.

    For a person who wants the specifics, I think it would be necessary to contact Allen Savory (He probably has a website, or a book. Or both.) I'm sure he is eager to share the specifics of his solution,
     
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  4. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Well there is an issue in the United States because some areas are protected areas. Bird species, turtles and other creatures sometimes make parts of the West a no-go zone. Many of those issues will have to be resolved first. Plus size matters. Out here there was a county that had free range goats till someone stole the goats. In order to heal our planet, we will definitely need to let go of some laws that think we need to protect nature and let nature do its thing.
     
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  5. deMolay

    deMolay Monkey+

    Pretty tough decision how to manage nature, were do you draw the line and who is wise enough to know were the line is? The great wildfires recently in California are mostly a result of man letting nature go unmanaged. In the wild nature renews the forest by allowing every thing to grow as it can find its place, hence much undergrowth, all well and good. Nature is doing her thing. The fuel source builds up and things hit a dry season, lightning strikes and the fire burns until all the fuel is consumed. And the forest starts its rebirth cycle. That is nature. Or look at the lunatic scientists that know want to spray chemicals into the upper atmosphere to slow down non existent global warming based on studies over 20-30 years in the larger earth life cycle of 4.5 Billion years. Who is wise enough to outsmart nature? I don't know the answer, but be careful what you wish for is all I can say. I do know that when the earth reaches her carrying capacity for humans, she will shake like a dog with fleas and scratch and our numbers will drop back to before we found how to use oil, which allowed our numbers to grow from 500,000/1B to 7B in a little over 100 years or so. The shake out is coming
     
  6. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    So we dug a hole 3 years ago about 15 feet deep
    Today I have cattails minnows and deer and raccoons coming in to drink.
    One day soon this may be enlarged to a pond in the woods
    2 weeks ago planted a few seed potatoes just to see how they would do.

    20190325_085352.
     
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  7. deMolay

    deMolay Monkey+

    Every read about that Japanese guy, who grew gardens everywhere in the woods? No seriously. He is or was quite famous.
     
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  8. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

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  9. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++


    The problem with most arid operations is the need for moisture. The amount of energy expended VS the amount of energy returned is about break even. Which is great if growing in the arid places is yer only option and you can devote basically a full time job worth of time each week to sustenance level growing. Even using this guys techniques, once you get the patch up to being able to grow something other than rocks, it takes years to build any significant amount of fertile soil in the desert.

    Land I started with here when I relocated was depleted from 30 years of corn/bean rotations. The only thing it would grow was mustard weed and thistle. 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 were devoted to returning life to the soil. 2012 things were finally growing very well without the need to add NPK fertilizers. Organic matter in the soil is now (11 years Later) running 18% when I began it was less than 1%. 20 acres got planted in a pasture mix and 12 goats, 4 horses and 5 cows were put on that 20 acres in 2009 that section was not as bad as the rest soil wise and K-31 fescu grew very well on it. 2011 the fescu was replaced with a orchard grass and clover mix. The goats were removed from the equation and 5 more Irish dexters added.

    The Early days (Pic from 2010) I scraped every ounce of manure from around the hay rings and got around 4 piles like this per year. Started discing that in over 1 acre per year. As I added more cattle the manure piles got BIG now days the piles pulled together every 3 months are about 5X the size of that one. LOL lots of organic matter in the soil now days. All that organic matter = Worms, bacteria, microbes, and a living soil. Can't do it without ruminants like Dexters Cattle or Nasty icky Goats that will eat the coarse weeds and turn them into soil builders. Working it hard and intensively 1 acre at a time I have gotten up to 10 very productive garden/field acres. Turned the hay field back into beans/corn rotation last year and with no fertilizer inputs at all, that 20 acres averaged 74.6 Bushel per acre beans........ That is VERY good if you don't know. Will do corn this year and I expect in the 200ish BPA Range. Then Beans again in 2020 and back to Orchard Grass and Clover and grazing for 2 years and then beans, corn, Beans again. Doing it 2/3 1/3 crop lease with a row cropper friend and my 1/3 converted to corn in trade for my beans put 37,300 pounds of corn in my grain bank at the elevator for that 20 acre field. That is enough corn supplement to finish 110 head of pasture hogs. That field was just what the cows, goats and horses fertilized it with as they grazed. The 10 acres I have repaired was all done with the hay ring collections.
    100_1195-252x182.

    Best thing is I have a couple of resident Hawks now that have gotten way too friendly :) LOL I am standing on the porch about 15 feet away from him and we are having one of our morning stare downs. He and a couple of other hawks spend a lot of time here picking off mice and rabbits.
    13769554_1126167770755024_2385306873864517746_n.


    I got the cure fer man buns :)

    536820_483335925021255_1334676575_n.
     
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